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  • enlist

    DL:

    I am glad that you are so strong with your convictions. It is refreshing to see. My advice:

    Enlist!

    Show us what you're made of, Boy! While they're bringing it on - you show 'em your good american stuff! You're young, carefree, and convicted:

    Enlist!

    Don't waste your time mincing words with us. Lead by example! I wish every able bodied Republican that wanted to follow Bush would just follow the example of his unimpeachable military record, take all of that stored energy, and

    Enlist!

  • #2
    Originally posted by krunky
    DL:

    I am glad that you are so strong with your convictions. It is refreshing to see. My advice:

    Enlist!

    Show us what you're made of, Boy! While they're bringing it on - you show 'em your good american stuff! You're young, carefree, and convicted:

    Enlist!

    Don't waste your time mincing words with us. Lead by example! I wish every able bodied Republican that wanted to follow Bush would just follow the example of his unimpeachable military record, take all of that stored energy, and

    Enlist!
    You are a moron. I guessed you missed the part at the beginning where I said "vote agains bush if you must (I don't blame you". The point is, this film is a bunch of lies that anyone with any intellectual honesty should dismiss.

    For the record, I served during the first gulf war. What did you do coward?

    Dlackey

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey! Hey! guys.
      Let's not break the rules of ettiquette on here.

      That's right DLackey served in the Army.
      He is a Republican. We know his views.

      We all post what we think. Good deal.
      The votes will decide what really happens next.

      Verbal warfare on here does nothing but bad.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hey, come to these shores and face Krunky in all his ferocity.

        Off this land and in a far away place, I leave it to you lunkheads to make war for your oil gods.

        I'm not a coward DL. In fact, although I abhor fighting I have never lost a fight to anyone except my older brother until I was old enough to kick his ass. Funny to think of it now, but I pleaded with him to not instigate me any more - but he would not let up (the power madness of being an older brother). He hit me in the face, I hit him back likewise - he went down and did not come around for about 10 minutes.

        I am one of the toughest people I know. When I was a kid I was a total thug (not proud of it either, BTW). I don't feel pain like most people - it just makes me angrier.

        So anytime DL. I'd rather we two fought here in our homeland than you went to fight a war with international consequences. Don't forget to bring a length of chain or a 2x4 - it just wouldn't be sporting without the right gear.

        Comment


        • #5
          No weapons allowed. Only trunks, knuckles, limbs, and cephalization.
          Please take your corners.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by krunky
            Hey, come to these shores and face Krunky in all his ferocity.

            Off this land and in a far away place, I leave it to you lunkheads to make war for your oil gods.

            I'm not a coward DL. In fact, although I abhor fighting I have never lost a fight to anyone except my older brother until I was old enough to kick his ass. Funny to think of it now, but I pleaded with him to not instigate me any more - but he would not let up (the power madness of being an older brother). He hit me in the face, I hit him back likewise - he went down and did not come around for about 10 minutes.

            I am one of the toughest people I know. When I was a kid I was a total thug (not proud of it either, BTW). I don't feel pain like most people - it just makes me angrier.

            So anytime DL. I'd rather we two fought here in our homeland than you went to fight a war with international consequences. Don't forget to bring a length of chain or a 2x4 - it just wouldn't be sporting without the right gear.
            Jesus man, grow up. You tried to goad me and then you find out I'm a veteran of the armed forces and you have nothing but to resort to threats. I served my country, what did you do??? First attack me for posting an anti MM article then you threaten me with violence? What are you fucking 7? I'm fucking 6'2", 220 lbs, I work out 3 times a week and have a green belt in kempo, but I don't go around threatening people. I'm reporting you to the mods because that is bullshit.

            I never once said I was for the war or Bush. I am against the war in Iraq and I am against MM and his bogus timelines, faulty logic, misleading 'facts", and clever editing. See, you made assumptions about me that aren't even close to being true. i supported the first war, but I don't support this one.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jeriko
              Hey! Hey! guys.
              Let's not break the rules of ettiquette on here.

              That's right DLackey served in the Army.
              He is a Republican. We know his views.

              We all post what we think. Good deal.
              The votes will decide what really happens next.

              Verbal warfare on here does nothing but bad.
              He goaded me by trying to imply that I am for the war in Iraq but afraid to serve. i am actually against this current war in Iraq and I am not afraid to servce, i am a vetern of the armed forces. And neither am I republican, I'm an independent conservative with certain liberal views (health care for example). I try to see the balance. But thanks keeping it civil Jeriko. At least some around here can manage to do that...

              Comment


              • #8
                dl wrote/quoted:
                Moore does not offer any suggestion about what the President should have done during those seven minutes, rather than staying calm for the sake of the classroom and of the public. Nor does Moore point to any way that the September 11 events might have turned out better in even the slightest way if the President had acted differently. I agree with Lee Hamilton, the Vice-Chair of the September11 Commission and a former Democratic Representative from Indiana: "Bush made the right decision in remaining calm, in not rushing out of the classroom."

                -----------------------------------------------

                Like others, I can't waste my time going down that article point by point taking it apart. For one thing it provides nothing new. For a second thing it is outrageously long and short on detail in my view - like a growing hydra of extraneous information and argumentation techniques. Y'know, anytime the right wants to do this kind of polemical documentary thing - they can! Of course, they already have Faux News - which is 24/7 right-wing propaganda of the most sickening kind.

                But let's talk about 7 minutes for a moment. And I'm so lazy, I'm just going to quote someone else here (http://www.lies.com/wp/2004/06/19/th...seven-minutes/):

                -------------------------------------------

                Those 7 long minutes says all that you need to know about GWB. The commander-and-chief sat for 7 minutes, after being told that America was under attack, while people were running for their lives to get out of the WTC. What general, when told that America was under attack, would sit and read "My Pet Goat" to kiddies. And the lame excuse about projecting calm? He could have CALMLY stood up, CALMLY excused himself and CALMLY walked out the door and then RAN to the car to get to Air Force One, with it's fully equipped command center, where he could act the commander-and-chief. Instead his people, these brilliant people who were supposed to make up for GWB's lack of experience (and ability), were communicating on cell phones! But we all know why GWB sat for 7 minutes? it's because no one told him what to do. We truly have Bozo the President and the dumbest electorate imaginable.

                Comment by Len N - July 8, 2004 @ 10:21 am

                -------------------------------------------

                And that's pretty much it really. Sitting there doing nothing was the strangest reaction I could have conceived. When disaster has struck near a loved a one I have myself reached for the phone directly - if I ever hesitated in such a situation it's because in the immediate moments after a disaster it's sometimes best to leave the phones open for emergency services. I have at such times restrained my urgent need to know that a loved one was okay for the benefit of a greater good. But if I were hearing about an event an hour after the fact, I have never failed to grab a phone and make a call. I would be surprised to hear that anyone else behaves substantially differently.

                I can even give the guy a moment or two to collect his thoughts. But seven minutes?

                The prez should have been making for a command center and setting up shop hopefully over encrypted lines of communication. He should have been seeking a report from the Pentagon - whose job it is to monitor these kinds of events - y'know, stuff like an attack on the Pentagon! But you know what - I won't even pretend to know myself everything he should have done instead of sitting on his ass - I am not the prez and have never been briefed on what all is available to the prez during a time of crisis. I'm just betting there's plenty more to it than sitting around doing nothing.

                I mean, just for starters, how about if he were to stand up and say something like "I'm sorry children, I have some government business I have to attend to. I'm sorry I've had to cut my time with you short - we'll reschedule this for another time. I want y'all to remember that reading is very important and I am proud to have heard some of you read so well today. Now, if you will excuse me..."

                I don't know - if you don't think sitting on his hands for seven minutes was weird, then you don't. I'm guessing dl hasn't even seen the footage for himself - he probably sees his job as trying to stop others from even wanting to see it.

                More about the pipeline anon...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hey dl, I never questioned your courage. I just told you to go enlist if you felt that the war was justified. If you feel otherwise, why post long pro-Bush rants that are almost utter nonsense? That's weird. Where's the anti-war rhetoric to support this claim of yours? Almost every time you post it's pretty clearly some Pro-Bush thing. Or am I mistaken?

                  Don't confuse critical thinking with merely citing an opposing view. It has to be a meritorious opinion. It must have substance.

                  And I don't want to fight you - I left the option to you. I think fighting is stupid. To be avoided at all cost. But because I love to goad people like yourself, I may have sent a mixed message - and for that I am sorry.

                  But I am not afraid to fight if I must. I have also taken some martial arts in my youth, and while I'm not as tall as you, I am heavy in muscle and bone. I grew up in the "avenues" of Los Angeles in the 1970s. Gangland. Street fighting the whole time. So yeah, I'm not exactly quaking in my boots, Boy! It wasn't until I moved to other more affluent areas that I realized that not everyone wanted to go toe to toe all the time.

                  But let me get this straight - you are unaware of my nonviolent, anti-war stance? I have not made my opposition to war clear enough in these forums? I have not time and again spoken of being a man of civilization, always seeking a solution before matters escalate?

                  I have to think that such cannot be true.

                  But I wouldn't want you to think I am opposed to violence at all cost. I'm not. Nor am I a coward. The sad truth is: I love violence! I spent my childhood making holes in the walls of my elementary school WITH MY HANDS and beating people up for no good reason. One of my better adult friends is a guy I used to thrash all the time. He is the better of us because he has been able to forgive my youthful stupidity, while all I can do is lament my ignorant behavior. That's why I'm not proud to have been a thug - I even have adult reminders of my earlier "sins." I really respect the fact that my friend has been able to look past that stuff and still create and maintain a friendship with me.

                  But the suggestion that I would be afraid to defend my own is laughable at best. If anything, I am usually oblivious to threats to my person when confronted with a crisis. I have to use my head to overrule what I might otherwise do by instinct.

                  And lest you think me some kind of Moore sycophant, I'm not. This is the first Moore thing I have ever seen or read. But now I am interested to learn more about his opinions. And I say this as a proud gun owner, understanding that Moore has some issues with guys like me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    D Lackey You are a long time part of this message board.
                    There's no way I would want to antagonize you from participating.

                    It's a very volatile time in politics. I think we all are more than smart enough here to understand each other.

                    We all take your point. We do not think MMoore is the herald of truth and justice. We know he uses propaganda. But we also have beliefs and sentiments that match his.

                    We are getting the messages from both sides. And we will take and leave what we will according to what we believe and who we are.

                    I hope one day all the political chit chat will be less polarized. As I've said before, politics isn't "my favorite cup of tea." I look forward to when I can be at ease being more ignorant about politics and current event, and think of swords, wizards, and monsters more often.

                    --Jer :)
                    \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
                    Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by krunky
                      Hey dl, I never questioned your courage. I just told you to go enlist if you felt that the war was justified. If you feel otherwise, why post long pro-Bush rants that are almost utter nonsense? That's weird. Where's the anti-war rhetoric to support this claim of yours? Almost every time you post it's pretty clearly some Pro-Bush thing. Or am I mistaken?

                      Don't confuse critical thinking with merely citing an opposing view. It has to be a meritorious opinion. It must have substance.

                      And I don't want to fight you - I left the option to you. I think fighting is stupid. To be avoided at all cost. But because I love to goad people like yourself, I may have sent a mixed message - and for that I am sorry.

                      But I am not afraid to fight if I must. I have also taken some martial arts in my youth, and while I'm not as tall as you, I am heavy in muscle and bone. I grew up in the "avenues" of Los Angeles in the 1970s. Gangland. Street fighting the whole time. So yeah, I'm not exactly quaking in my boots, Boy! It wasn't until I moved to other more affluent areas that I realized that not everyone wanted to go toe to toe all the time.

                      But let me get this straight - you are unaware of my nonviolent, anti-war stance? I have not made my opposition to war clear enough in these forums? I have not time and again spoken of being a man of civilization, always seeking a solution before matters escalate?

                      I have to think that such cannot be true.

                      But I wouldn't want you to think I am opposed to violence at all cost. I'm not. Nor am I a coward. The sad truth is: I love violence! I spent my childhood making holes in the walls of my elementary school WITH MY HANDS and beating people up for no good reason. One of my better adult friends is a guy I used to thrash all the time. He is the better of us because he has been able to forgive my youthful stupidity, while all I can do is lament my ignorant behavior. That's why I'm not proud to have been a thug - I even have adult reminders of my earlier "sins." I really respect the fact that my friend has been able to look past that stuff and still create and maintain a friendship with me.

                      But the suggestion that I would be afraid to defend my own is laughable at best. If anything, I am usually oblivious to threats to my person when confronted with a crisis. I have to use my head to overrule what I might otherwise do by instinct.

                      And lest you think me some kind of Moore sycophant, I'm not. This is the first Moore thing I have ever seen or read. But now I am interested to learn more about his opinions. And I say this as a proud gun owner, understanding that Moore has some issues with guys like me.

                      It was not a pro-Bush rant, it was a point by point debunking of Moore's film. If you didn't notice, the guy who wrote it voted for Nader in the last election. Another left-wing rebuttal of Moore's film can be found at Slate and was written by Christopher Hitchens.

                      Can you actually read? I've mentioned several times in the last 3 posts that I am against this current war. However, I am also against Moore. "Bowling for Columbine" and "Stupid White Men" have already been discredited. For a good example, go to bowlingfortruth.com. F911 doesn't feature the same kind of straight out lies, it is more clever than that. For example, he implies that Fox news was the first to call FL for Bush when really it was CBS news.

                      But I don't know why I'm bothering. You don't ever read anyone else's posts, you just skim to the parts that you disagree with and make assumptions that have no basis in fact. I am not afraid to fight, but like you, i abhor violence, hence the reason I took martial arts. Anyone fucking with me is going to drag themselves away with a broken leg or a dislocated shoulder. I don't care how big and tough they are. But that is not the point, the point is that personal threats should not be made on a forum like this and I certainly won't be the one making them.

                      The first gulf war was not an oil grab, it was an international coalition with one mission- drive the Iraqi forces out of Kuwait. It was a just war against an agressor. This war was not. I've posted elsewhere in this forum what I think of Bush. Some of his stances I am for, others I am against. I'm also of the opinion that he is of below average intelligence for a President. As I mentioned previously I am an independent conservative with certain liberal views. I despise Moore's propaganda methods, and I don't really care for yours either. Long cut and paste jobs from left-wing biased sources get tedious to read after a while and drown out the forums. Not to mention the fact that you automatically attack anyone posting a viewpoint which contradicts yours. You are the ranter on this forum, not me. But freedom of speech works both ways.

                      Some obvious manipulations in Moore's film:

                      -Bush senior joined the Carlyle group in 1998, several years after their dealings with the Saudis

                      -Richard Clarke ordered the Bin Laden family flown out of the US

                      -CBS news called FL for Bush first, not Fox news

                      -The founding member and managing partner of the Carlyle group is a former top Carter aid and two of the board members are former top Clinton aids, something Moore fails to mention. It is a bi-partisan board of Republicans and Democrats

                      -Names on Guard service records are blacked out by law, to protect the privacy of guard members who served with someone like Bush who is running for Pres. There was no sinister conspircy.

                      Read the article I posted and you find plenty of tidbits like this that cannot be refuted easily. Moore cut and pasted together a catchy documentary that easily persuades those who don't want to think for themselves, but I don't buy it for a minute.

                      The ironic thing is that the very people who think that Moore is a hero for attacking Bush and co, attack anyone who dares to attack Moore. As I said before, freedom of speech works both ways. Moore has a right to his opinions, and others have a right to discredit him.

                      moorelies.com
                      bowlingfortruth.com
                      moorewatch.com

                      for starters...

                      The truth is out there but you have to look for it...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        DL:

                        You're not reading this forum very well either then. Somewhere in here I pointed to a point by point take down on the Hitchens peice - it really is utter garbage.

                        By the numbers.
                        http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=113415&cid=9606870

                        We have discussed at least several of your other points here, directly and by inference. The Clarke thing and the fact that the Democrats may not be much better, but are just the other side of the same corporate machine. Etc...

                        You also said:
                        "I am not afraid to fight, but like you, i abhor violence, hence the reason I took martial arts. Anyone fucking with me is going to drag themselves away with a broken leg or a dislocated shoulder. I don't care how big and tough they are."

                        I don't waste my time fighting someone to maim unless I am positive I can take them and restrain them afterwards. While you are concentrating on how to maim me, I have already done some ONE thing that would just kill you. If I move even one muscle to harm you, it would be for only one reason. Plus, I don't mind getting hurt, as long as my opponent goes down and stays down. One story only.

                        Exactly what sort of training have you had again? It's too stupid...

                        We street fighters have always laughed at your type. Hopping around with your "karate" hands etc. Then "BAM" on the floor. Be less civil, more animal - then you will understand. Violence is not a game with rules.

                        Anyway, I've probably saved your life. Now some dude in FL will not necessarily kill you.

                        But this empty talk is well beyond the scope of these forums.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It isn't jumping around going "hy yah" unless you've seen a total moron in action who probably took one adult class. The basic idea (and this is very simplified) is that you defend yourself against whatever your opponent tries to do and then launch a quick and devastating counter attack. I've seen what happened when some street fighting lunk tries to take on a trained martial artist- it is instant devastation for the street fighter. Broken limbs, dislocated joints, death in the worst case scenario (although I haven't actually seen that thank god). It is like some backwoods milita dipshit trying to take on a trained soldier. Boxers can present a problem, due to the blinding hand speed, but they can be countered quite effectively if you don't let one land a lucky shot on your grill.

                          By the way, I hope you didn't construe this quote:

                          ""I am not afraid to fight, but like you, i abhor violence, hence the reason I took martial arts. Anyone fucking with me is going to drag themselves away with a broken leg or a dislocated shoulder. I don't care how big and tough they are."

                          As a threat against you, I was just speaking in general here about the point of martial arts. Avoid violence at all costs, defend and counter it when necessary, and although they do train you to go for the kill, generally a good maiming will end it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There's a lot of variables that go into what decides a victorious combatant.

                            The style of combat used is only one variable.

                            Street fighter vs. Martial artist,

                            I've seen victories both ways.
                            \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
                            Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              And as they say in the army, gun fu beats kung fu!!!


                              :lol:

                              btw, I hope this post (i'll quote myself) proves I'm not some goose stepping Bush apologist:

                              Did you watch the Russert interview?

                              I don't think the guy is evil, just clueless. He is a rich daddy's boy and he has a very black and white view of the world.

                              I personally am glad that Saddam is gone and that Al Qaeda and the Taliban have been systematically stripped of their power, but I don't think launching a pre-emptive war without the support of our allies was the way to go about it. Bush has no understanding whatsoever of internatinal politics.

                              On the other hand, Clinton launched an illegal war on Serbia with flimsier evidence of "genocide" than Bush had of "WMD" and the whole world loved him for it (other than the Chinese and Russians). He even bombed the Chinese embassy (on "accident"). As much as I think the man was a total slime ball, I will say that he understood how to draw international support, just as Bush's father was able to, and Reagan before him.



                              I think Moore is a slimeball, but then again, i hate Rush Limbaugh too and would present websites that counter his propaganda if anyone was on here defending him.

                              BTW Krunky, no harm no foul, I apologize for my initial responses and as you already apologized for goading me without meaning too, I say we agree to disagree and let it drop. Obvously we both abhor fighting and view it as a last resort. At least that we can agree on.

                              Oh yeah and I said this too:

                              He's toast. I think even a number of conservatives can see what a disaster his administration has been. I know from my quasi center right towards moderate type viewpoint that I see him as the worst president since Jimmy Carter. Maybe one of the worst presidents ever. I think the key is to have a Democratic Congress with a Republican President, or a Republican Congress with a Democratic Congress. I think it moderates the President's agenda so we don't end up with extreme left or extreme right policy making.

                              Comment

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