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Jung and the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator...

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  • seanpmc1
    Denizen of Moo Uria
    • Mar 2009
    • 106

    Jung and the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator...

    Anybody on here have any experience with the Myers-Briggs test? If so, did you feel that it was accurate?

    I was diagnosed with Bipolar II disorder a few months ago. I have known for years that "something" was wrong with me, but my Family Dr. diagnosed it as Depression and tried to treat me with Anti-Depressents. Besides the most well known side effect of Anti-Depressents (malfunctioning "equipment"), I also had a serious problem with the way the medication made me artificially happy all the time. It just seemed totally "un-natural" to me, so I quit taking the Meds and just tried to deal with it on my own.

    This lasted for about ten years, and I was able to keep myself under a reasonable amount of control without Meds. Roughly 4 months ago however, I started having extreme Anxiety attacks for no apparent reason. Having never experienced anything like this before, it scared the crap out of me and I immediately went to my Dr. about it. He asked me a bunch of questions off a list he had, and decided that I had all the indications of B.P. II. He sent me to a Psychiatrist to make sure, since this wasn't in his area of expertise, and she verified it, along with the Myers-Briggs "type"-INTJ.

    When I got home, I immediately looked up INTJ, and found that all the information I coulod find on it almost perfectly described me. I had never held much faith in Psychiatry before this, but after seeing how accurate her Diagnosis of my thought processes and behaviour was, I have to admit that I have changed my tune, at least as far as Jungian based Psychiatry goes. (I still think Freud caused more problems than he solved)

    Anyway, here is a short description of the INTJ "Type", which may answer some questions a few of you have about the things I have said on this forum...
    ------------------------------


    "Found in about 1 percent of the general population, the INTJs live in an introspective reality, focusing on possibilities, using thinking in the form of empirical logic, and preferring that events and people serve some positive use. Decisions come naturally to INTJs' once a decision is made, INTJs are at rest. INTJs look to the future rather than the past, and a word which captures the essence of INTJs is builder-a builder of systems and the applier of theoretical models."

    "INTJs manipulate the world of theory as if on a gigantic chess board, always seeking strategies and tactics that have high payoff. INTJs need only to have a vague, intuitive impression of the unexpressed logic of a system to continue surely on their way. Things need only seem logical; this is entirely sufficient. Moreover, they always have a keen eye for the consequence of the application of new ideas or positions. They can be quite ruthless in the implementation of systems, seldom counting personal cost in terms of time and energy. Theories which cannot be made to work are quickly discarded by the INTJs."

    "To understand INTJs, their way of dealing with ideas should be observed closely. Their conscious thought is extraverted and empirical. Hence, they are better at generalizing, classifying, summarizing, adducing evidence, proving, and demonstrating than are the INTPs. The INTJs are somewhat less at home with pure reason, that is, systemic logic, where principles are explicit. In this respect they resemble the ENTJs. The INTJs, rather than using deductive logic, use their intuition to grasp coherence."
    Last edited by seanpmc1; 04-02-2009, 06:57 AM. Reason: spelling
  • opaloka
    digital serf 41221z/74
    • Jun 2006
    • 3746

    #2
    It's probably as accurate as anyhting, but I think it can be 'gamed' either consciously or subconsciously - a person could answer according to their self image as opposed to their real behavior.

    Comment

    • UncleDes
      Got Moves like Jagged
      • Dec 2006
      • 3682

      #3
      Agree with you, Opaloka.

      It lacks an objective reproducible metric.

      Might as well be a horoscope:

      "Pisces are outgoing people who sometimes doubt their capabilities. Warm and caring, they can sometimes have a hostile side..." etc etc. The usual Rainbow Ruse bollocks.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading
      Des
      Spacerockmanifesto on Facebook

      Hawkwind tabs

      Comment

      • seanpmc1
        Denizen of Moo Uria
        • Mar 2009
        • 106

        #4
        Originally posted by opaloka View Post
        It's probably as accurate as anyhting, but I think it can be 'gamed' either consciously or subconsciously - a person could answer according to their self image as opposed to their real behavior.

        I realize that too, but I emailed the description to close friends and some of my family members and they all thought it was dead-on. Some of it seems pretty negative to me, but I immediately recognized those aspects of myself when I read the description.

        The Psychiatrist also did most of it without me realizing what she was doing (I'm sure thats something they are trained to do). She got her answers by a very subtle method that I didn't catch on to until it was over with, and I had time to think about it. She talked about her husband being in the Construction Trade like myself, and threw in other "normal" seeming conversation between questions. Before I knew it, an hour and a half had gone by, and she suddenly announced that she agreed with my Doctors assessment, and that my Myers-Briggs type had a tendency to make the problem worse. When I asked her what that meant, she told me to "Google" INTJ when I got home.

        I think to be accurate, it definitly takes a well trained person to do it right.

        Comment

        • seanpmc1
          Denizen of Moo Uria
          • Mar 2009
          • 106

          #5
          Originally posted by UncleDes View Post
          Might as well be a horoscope:

          That may well be true, that is why I brought this subject up.

          Regardless of the MBTI outcome, the Bi-Polar II diagnoses was apparently correct. They are treating me with a drug called Lamictal, which is a Stabalizer instead of an Anti-Depressent. I'm on a pretty low dosage of it, but it has succeeded in "levelling" me out without the adverse effects you always hear about Lithium.

          Comment

          • opaloka
            digital serf 41221z/74
            • Jun 2006
            • 3746

            #6
            I guess the best thing to do then is look at it like any test, it's a tool for self discovery. What matters isn't what we think but what you get out of it.

            Comment

            • seanpmc1
              Denizen of Moo Uria
              • Mar 2009
              • 106

              #7
              Originally posted by opaloka View Post
              What matters isn't what we think but what you get out of it.
              Correct.

              But that isn't the reason I posted this. I was simply curious as to whether anyone else has taken it, and whether they thought it matched... Or not.

              Many people prefer not to talk about things like this though, so I may be the only one here open enough to discuss my experiences with the Psychiatric field. Admittedly though, my problems are slight compared to most people that have had need of Psychiatry, I only needed verification and dosage, then was turned back over to my family Doctors care.

              Comment

              • thingfish
                sairfecht
                • Sep 2007
                • 15756

                #8
                Im glad that this treatment is working out well for you Sean.
                I know only too well how scary panic attacks can be as i suffer from Huntingtons Disease and they are one of the many shit symptoms.
                When that fast-forward beat starts in your head it leads to the kind of mental chaos that leaves you beaten and disturbed for days.
                I have a team of 3 Psychiatrists/Psychologists who i see every week for various things such as anger management,depression and anxiety/panic attacks which are all symptoms of the condition.
                Whatever works for whatever reason is fair enough in my book.
                Last edited by thingfish; 04-02-2009, 05:57 PM.
                "I hate to advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone,but they've always worked for me"

                Hunter S Thompson

                Comment

                • seanpmc1
                  Denizen of Moo Uria
                  • Mar 2009
                  • 106

                  #9
                  Originally posted by thingfish View Post
                  I know only too well how scary panic attacks can be
                  Like I said, i was able to control the "Lows" involved with the Bi-Polar disorder for years. But when the Panic/Anxiety attacks started it scared me.

                  I had an Uncle who was a Psychiatrist for 40 years. I never knew it until after he died, but he was Bi-Polar too. He had regular Bi-Polar though, which meant that he ranged from Low to High. Bi-Polar II is slightly different in that the "Highs" aren't there, I go from "Normal" to "Low".

                  Anyway, for no apparent reason, the Uncle hung himself several years ago. None of us knew anything about the fact that he had his own mental problems, because he had hidden it from everybody except his immediate family. His wife came home from her morning walk one day and found him hanging from the rafters in the Garage.

                  Turned out, after they did an autopsy on him, he had no sign of the meds he was supposed to be taking in his system. Apparently he had decided to quit taking them, even his widow doesn't know why.

                  But since that happened several years ago, and I now knew about his condition, the panic attacks that I had never experienced before scared me so badly that I immediately thought of my Uncle and his relatively unexplained suicide. Then when the Panic attacks started happening almost daily, I decided it was time to quit trying to deal with it on my own and seek out help.

                  People who have never had a panic/Anxiety attack have no idea what its like. I never put much stock in them myself, until I started having them. I don't know what yours are like, but I literally felt like I was losing my mind. I haven't had it happen since being put on the Stabalizers, so I'm hoping it stays that way and I never have one again...

                  Comment

                  • seanpmc1
                    Denizen of Moo Uria
                    • Mar 2009
                    • 106

                    #10
                    Originally posted by thingfish View Post
                    i suffer from Huntingtons Disease
                    I had never heard of Huntingtons before, so I just looked it up. From what Wikipedia has to say about it, you definitely have worse problems than I do. Have the Physical effects started yet? I don't know how you feel about the Stem-Cell issue, but hopefully the stem cell treatment Wikipedia mentioned can be developed into a cure before its too late for you...

                    I have a Niece with Cystic Fibrosis, and they have been seeing promising results by putting the patients own stem-cells in an inhaler type device so the cells go directly into their Lungs. Hopefully, since Obama has reversed Bush's Ban on federal funding, they will be able to continue to develop these potential cures, or at least extend the lives of people with problems such as hers and yours.

                    Comment

                    • thingfish
                      sairfecht
                      • Sep 2007
                      • 15756

                      #11
                      They sound like very similar attacks to mine-Completely haywire experiences.
                      In fact the word 'Panic' doesnt even get close does it!
                      There is no way that anyone that hasnt experienced them can properly relate especially some psychotherapists who talk like they know more than you do about them which annoys me sometimes.
                      Is Bi-Polarism a genetic condition?
                      I was just wondering after reading about your uncle.
                      Im not allowed Lamactal just now as it wouldnt mix with my other meds that i am still taking.
                      Do you guys have Semestal in the U.S?
                      Thats what has helped me a little bit and it has no nasty sideys!!
                      "I hate to advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone,but they've always worked for me"

                      Hunter S Thompson

                      Comment

                      • thingfish
                        sairfecht
                        • Sep 2007
                        • 15756

                        #12
                        I had a procedure last April done involving human nerve stem cells which is what the meds are still stabilising.
                        It worked out pretty well by all accounts(i was one of the first to have it)and the symptoms are certainly a lot less severe than what they would have been.
                        But its still an on going thing.
                        Most of the time though i function quite normally(apart from the anger thing!!)
                        I have heard about those inhalers,we dont have them here yet but there coming and im first in the queue.
                        Cystic Fibrosis,thats a bad one.
                        Give the wee lass a cuddle from me!!
                        "I hate to advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone,but they've always worked for me"

                        Hunter S Thompson

                        Comment

                        • seanpmc1
                          Denizen of Moo Uria
                          • Mar 2009
                          • 106

                          #13
                          I don't really know if its genetic or not, but it seems to be. That Uncle I mentioned was actually my Mom's Uncle, and Mom has two sisters that have issues as well. Mom and her brother however, don't seem to have any problems.

                          Her Uncle, and his siblings were of pure Welsh descent. Mom and her sisters are half Irish, both of her maternal Grandparents immigrated from Ireland in the 1920's. No insult intended, but I have seen mentioned several times that Welsh people are prone to "moodiness". I have often wondered if there is some kind of genetic predisposition for depression among the Welsh people. It certainly seems so in my Welsh part of the family. They are Howell's, so they definitely have a long family history in Wales...

                          (And no, Panic doen't even come close to describing what is happening in your mind as it happens. After its over is when the panic starts in because you can't figure out what the hell just happened to you...)
                          Last edited by seanpmc1; 04-02-2009, 07:15 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Nathaniel
                            Champion of the Balance
                            • Nov 2006
                            • 1989

                            #14
                            Going back to the MBTI, I am not a psycholgist, but its reliance on self ascription is not nescisarily as big a detriment as one might initialy think. As a corelation, what is known as the "Big 5" personality test, which measures people on Extraversion, Agreableness, Openness, Neuroticism and Concientiousness, all done according to on's assesment of oneself, nothing from observers.
                            What is interesting is that there is aparently a high degree of predictability in neuroscience from these tests, like for a person with Extraversion of 80, then a prediction can be made of the size of part X of the brain relitive to part Y, with a pretty good success rate. Same goes for each of the other traits, but with things like nerotransmiter levels etc. New scientist or Scientific american did an article on it at some point in '08, can't find it atm though

                            Reason I bring this up is that there is also a high degree of corelation between the Big 5 and MBTI tests

                            I admit, though, that I have a bit more time for the MBTI since I find what it says about my "type" to be both accurate and amusing. And the fact that Hannible Lector and Clarice Starling, and Mr Darcey iirc were all listed as fictional charecters withthe same type.

                            Comment

                            • johneffay
                              Born Again Nihilist
                              • Sep 2005
                              • 3394

                              #15
                              Going even further back to Jung, it's worth pointing out that the MBTI may be derived from Jung, but it is very loosely derived from it and the correlation between it and Jung's 6 (not 8 as in the MBTI) functions is pretty superficial.

                              Whether or not you regard this as a good thing, probably depends upon your view of Jung.

                              Comment

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