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75th Birthday Anne Frank

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  • Jerico
    Damn! Where's Bill when you need him?

    Bill? Where art thou, bud?

    I buy into what you say, Doc!

    I miss the arguments now!

    Leave a comment:

  • Doc
    For what it's worth. I agree about capitalism, in and of itself, being a bad thing. I've ranted on other threads about my opposition to corporate capitalism, so I'll won't even hit on the high points . :lol:

    Apart from creating economic hegemony and homogeneity, I think corporations' greatest threats are to democracy. Corporate interests simply cannot be the interests of the general public, because they exist simply to make money for a select few of the public. In other words, they don't exist for the common good, which seems to be a fundamental precept of democracy.

    More practically, as Jules points out more eloquently than I can, when corporations get involved with political interests, then political interests become corporate interests (and vice-versa). The public, who government is supposed to represent, is left out of the equation.

    Krunky, I have five bucks toward Jules' 20 million. :D

    Leave a comment:

  • Jules
    Just send me a cheque for 20 million dollars and I'll stand.

    Leave a comment:

  • krunky
    These are all ideas I like, agree with, and would like to see implemented Jules. Please send me a sample of your newsletter so that I can subscribe.


    Leave a comment:

  • Jules
    Oh, and a complete bad on corporate donations to political parties OR force all companies to declare their political affiliations on their products!! (I would wager that no company would want to alienate the 35% of customers that support the other party, whichever is in power).

    If the MD on MBNA wants to give his salary to George Bush - I don't care - but why should all MBNA customers fund the Republican party? Why indeed do companies want to fund political parties at all, when those politicians are supposed to represent their ELECTORATE rather than their paymasters. (The question contains it's own answer).

    Of course, part of the issue there is that private contributions to politcal parties have fallen, so that just as Labour became too dependent on trade union support in the 70s to challenge their power when neccesary, now all the mainstream parties are too dependent on businesses.

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  • krunky
    The Chimney Sweeper
    by William Blake

    When my mother died I was very young,
    And my father sold me while yet my tongue
    Could scarcely cry 'Weep! weep! weep! weep!'
    So your chimneys I sweep, and in soot I sleep.

    There's little Tom Dacre, who cried when his head,
    That curled like a lamb's back, was shaved; so I said,
    'Hush, Tom! never mind it, for, when your head's bare,
    You know that the soot cannot spoil your white hair.'

    And so he was quiet, and that very night,
    As Tom was a-sleeping, he had such a sight! -
    That thousands of sweepers, Dick, Joe, Ned, and Jack,
    Were all of them locked up in coffins of black.

    And by came an angel, who had a bright key,
    And he opened the coffins, and set them all free;
    Then down a green plain, leaping, laughing, they run
    And wash in a river, and shine in the sun.

    Then naked and white, all their bags left behind,
    They rise upon clouds, and sport in the wind:
    And the angel told Tom, if he'd be a good boy,
    He'd have God for his father, and never want joy.

    And so Tom awoke, and we rose in the dark,
    And got with our bags and our brushes to work.
    Though the morning was cold, Tom was happy and warm:
    So, if all do their duty, they need not fear harm.

    Leave a comment:

  • Jules
    The problem is that while Blair might have a lot of power when it comes to going to war, or over the areas still under government control, most governments don't really have much control over capital any more - short of 'making this country an attractive place to do business in' - so countries jump to meet the demands of business, and organisations like the WTO lobby for the interests of big business. Personally I think all that is a lot more threatening to our soveriegnty than EEC laws about how much meat should be in a sausage.

    Also, I think it would have been more of a scandal in Labour had renationalised BT, etc - imagine how much the shares would have soared had their been a manifesto commitment to but back the denationalised industry, and how much taxpayers money would have gone into City coffers??

    What I think is needed :

    1) an effective international workers equivalent of the WTO, capable of imposing the same 'fines' on countries as the WTO can for countries that breach it's treaties.

    2) People to take more of an interest in their actions. Either you can have a situation where the government dictates everything, down to the style of clothes people wear (so as not to encourage dangerous individualisn), or you take responsibility for your actions. What I think is wrong is complaining about third world labour and then not being willing to pay a decent price for your clothes or food.

    Personally I would rather live in a soulless secular materialistic individualistic society that one dominated by a religion or ideology - Catholic, Islamic or Communist - that declares you far more a cog in the machine than Capitalism does. What comes with that is responsibility - 'responsibility for what you say / responsibilty for what you do'.

    3) A proper free press. As in it should actually be illegal to own a newspaper or TV station and have any influence on it's content. I don't mind anyone owning shares in a paper, but they should be just that, rather than using a paper as a mouthpiece to get far more than their democratic say (why is it that so many UK papers are in the hands of wierd millionaires rather than public companies like the commercial television stations. Why are these millionaires often willing to have loss making newspapers?? They must get something from the deal).

    I don't actually think Capitalism is that bad - historically it has been a force for as much good as evil - the spread of democracy, and more importantly Universal Suffrage, has it's links to the power of money as much as the power of the Mob. viz. the Manchester Free Traders lobbying Westiminster for a link between taxation and representation (Manchester, despite being a huge city at the time, having no MP, when electoral boundaries were more tied to historical country seats). viz. support for Cromwell and the English Civil War coming from a merchant class feeling opressed by the King's taxation . . . it can be a powerful force against an overbearing government - but unfortunately also against legitimate ones.

    Also historically we've seen what happens in the UK when 'labour' (as in the Unions) gets the upper hand, and it wasn't that great. Their actions got Labour out and Thatcher in (and the Tories for 17 years), and pretty much discredited the union movement amongst most people.

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  • Brainstorm
    Hey everydayslikesunday,you make some good points,capatalism is a poor way to run ant society,everyday we see instances of the strong/rich stepping on weak/poor.It is a shame that these people think that having lots of money means they are better than anyone else,but that is how history has been shaped for a very long time now,those that have and those that havn't.
    Trouble is we have had successive goverments who have done nothing to deal with the situation,they talk the good talk when in opposition,then when they get into power they just carry on where the others left off.
    Remember that Labour were going to reverse all the sell offs?..well how many have been reversed?...yes....none....Politicians don't know how to make the break...they struggle to see clearly what should be done,and we like sheep let them get away with their lies and their bull...change is needed badley,but how would you do it?...and where would you start?...give us your thoughts people.

    Leave a comment:

  • Everydayislikesunday
    Really one must remeber all those who suffered and those that continue to suffer now. Whether under a brutal totalitarian regime or in demacratic countries. No matter where you look, the abused are pitifully plain if one opens their eyes and sees.

    On the streets of every English town are the people let down by the systems in place. Whether it be educational, economic etc.

    But I get your point, she was a very brave person as are those who have died at the hands of tyranny. Capitalisum sent hundreds of children to their deaths in the mines, factories and mills of old England and still this regime is allowed to continue. :x

    Leave a comment:

  • L'Etranger
    started a topic 75th Birthday Anne Frank

    75th Birthday Anne Frank

    Would have been today....
    Just wanted to remind all of the courageous girl and her diary that gave us such an insight into the lives of the oppressed during some of Europe's darkest times - and taught us so much about dignity, I think.


    maybe better with info on her: