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  • #61
    Mikey_C,

    That one was good -- maybe a bit Lawrentian. :-] You handled this one
    with a lot of ease, which is the problem often when we try to squeeze a
    series of statements into a sonnet. Often, the results sound unintentionally
    torturous.

    Speaking of torturous, here's the first one from me. If I want to tinker with it
    more, I'll just edit it on the site.

    I never write these things as a "lyric" utterance. I invent (or recall) a character
    or a person, and devise something that seems suitable for that person. The
    nature of the "speaker" in the verses below ought to be obvious. It calls for
    a certain torturousness of expression, but perhaps I overdid it.

    I've got another one coming in the near future. I'll hold off posting it until
    HawkLord posts his verses.

    LSN
    ----

    The Whining of Gerontius, آ© 2004 by LSN

    Recaptured past? It brings regrets of age,
    Tableaux comprised of dormant angst and shame:
    Inconsequential as some puerile game,
    Or just dismissed as long surmounted stage.
    Amnesia's facile. Time to turn the page
    And not to seek receptacle for blame.
    Old conflict or injustice can inflame
    Or prison equipoise in passion's cage.

    There're better ways to spend one's meagre time.
    So gauche to dig up matters that increase
    The traffic on that psychic two-way street.
    Inter, forget, go seek more pleasant clime;
    A change of place and mood can bring surcease
    And hope the river passage shall be fleet.

    ---
    I know, the scansion's a bit eccentric. :lol:

    Comment


    • #62
      What the hell, here's the 2nd one. I always try to make each one
      different.

      LSN

      ---
      All Together in the Altogether

      The time has come for every sex and age
      To put to death our heritage of shame.
      Our earthly sojourn's nothing but a game,
      A ribald farce to play out on a stage.
      Our lines we write at random on the page
      Of life, and let our betters take the blame
      When honest revels thwarted lusts inflame
      And shock their puny demons in their cage.

      Come, show your disregard for space and time,
      And let your love of anarchy increase.
      Our nakedness we'll flaunt upon the street.
      Hot flesh and blood will conquer frigid clime.
      Of lifeless rules our spite will give surcease.
      The laws apply to laggards, not the fleet.

      Comment


      • #63
        Well, LSN, what a veritable hive of industry you are! Something like William Morris, who once said that "if a chap couldn't compose an epic poem whilst weaving a tapestry, he wasn't up to much" or words to that effect...

        I can see the Rorschach test analogy, although certain words do tend to lead in a certain direction. My effort and your second one have much the same theme. It's a fascinating exercise as the poems seem to some extent to write themselves.
        \"...an ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell

        Comment


        • #64
          Sorry ive not posted mine yet... ive been pretty busy but ill try to write one now


          Her hand wrinkled by the trappings of age,
          She cries for all the hidden shame
          That she acquired playing her foolish game.
          Now she will leave her stage,
          Try to turn a new page
          And at last she will take the blame.
          What more could she do, she would only inflame
          The ones she held in her emotional cage.

          How long will she continue to waste her time,
          While day by day her enemies increase.
          She's lost her way, doesn't know what street
          This is, she's seeking a different clime.
          She cries, calling faintly for surcease.
          But inside she knows the end will be fleet.


          Not very good i know but i dont have much time to edit it or nothing

          Comment


          • #65
            I'm pleased with all the results. I hope you guys were, too.

            HawkLord, never apologise (apologise pull out his eyes pull out his eyes apologise)
            for any work. You had nothing to apologise for, as your contribution to this
            noble collective was a worthy effort. Tricky, though, wasn't it?

            The attitude I cultivate towards this activity is that if I produce something I personally
            don't like (which happens all the time), I just go on to the next one. No big deal.

            It's my hope that a few others who didn't participate in selecting the words will
            give it a try with our choices. Perhaps a few of you will also give a 2nd one a try.
            It tends to be harder the 2nd time, but not always.

            I can do this again in the future, but Mikey_C's probably too busy, based on his
            expressed worries about the need to apply himself to his course work. So I'd
            guess the next "joint" effort should coincide with Xmas or thereabouts.
            (Unless there's a strong demand that we do it again ASAP.)

            LSN

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Mikey_C
              Well, LSN, what a veritable hive of industry you are! Something like William Morris, who once said that "if a chap couldn't compose an epic poem whilst weaving a tapestry, he wasn't up to much" or words to that effect...
              :8O: . . . :lol:

              I recall the Morris quotation. I'd note in passing that he didn't practice all his
              arts with equal facility or equal success.

              What prompted this response, I wonder? It's not that hard to put together a
              set of verses. I actually don't have a lot of free time, since I work during the
              day, teach TKD on nights and weekends, and I have a teenage daughter. And
              I've got to read sometime. (Fortunately, I read fairly quickly.) So all this
              versifying activity tends to happen between the hours of midnight and 2 am,
              which is the time I have alloted to doing odd jobs.

              I feel busy, but hardly a "hive of industry." :lol:

              Originally posted by Mikey_C
              I can see the Rorschach test analogy, although certain words do tend to lead in a certain direction. My effort and your second one have much the same theme. It's a fascinating exercise as the poems seem to some extent to write themselves.
              Agreed about how certain words exert an effect on the course and meaning
              of verses. This is why it's important when selecting the rhymes not to select
              words with a tendentious quality about them; such selections will produce verses
              with either a certain theme or it's Hegelian antithesis. It can be fun to try it,
              but it's even more constricting than the simple rhyme words.

              I noticed the similarity between my 2nd sonnet and the one you wrote. Pure
              coincidence, and the mildly tendentious quality of the words.

              I actually had it written before I saw your effort, and was holding it back
              while I tinkered with the first one. The first one was a lot harder to do, but
              curiously less successful. My brother-in-law read it and asked, "Who is
              Gerontius?" "Elgar and Newman," my wife, who was nearby, replied.
              "Elgar, as in 'Pomp and Circumstance'?" "The same," I replied. "But Elgar's
              actually quite good, and the 'Pomp and Circumstance' marches are the
              bad Elgar -- tradesman's son, social climber, and would-be Victorian
              clubman. The music of 'The Dream of Gerontius' is interesting. Cardinal
              Newman's poem -- well, let's say he'd have been none the worse for
              hanging."

              I didn't really think the Gerontius reference was obscure. But then, my
              brother-in-law's a biochemist. What does he know? :lol:

              LSN

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by L_Stearns_Newburg
                What prompted this response, I wonder?
                Purely my own guilt about having achieved so little over the weekend - apart from the poem, which I very much enjoyed, although I must confess it must have taken me a couple of hours. I'm a great perfectionist and tend to worry at things a lot.

                Reams of reading on the topic of globalisation await me; fascinating enough, but I do need a bit of a release from politics at present. Added to which, everywhere I look there is something that needs repairing / repainting / replacing.

                You're right about Morris. Too much of his poetry resembles his wallpaper. The early stuff, from the Oxford and Cambridge magazine is the best, although partly because it seems more modern due to his inexperience with the forms. Apparently "The Defence of Guenevere" opens in such an abrupt manner because the first page of the manuscript went astray at the printers' - serendipity! Compare and contrast with the leaden beats of "Sigurd and the Volsungs".

                I re-read "News from Nowhere" recently. What a bizarre Utopia from someone who claimed to draw inspiration from Marx. Rather than wasting our time on intellectual pursuits, Morris would have us all out haymaking. Shades of Pol Pot? That can't be fair! Morris was my second hero after Tolkien; it might even be his fault I call myself a socialist...
                \"...an ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell

                Comment


                • #68
                  I remember the case of the missing first page of "The Defence of Guenevere." It starts
                  dramatically and abruptly because of this, and it's quite different from most of Morris's
                  verse.

                  As for Sigurd, and enormous Jason epic, and other things -- well, there are good
                  parts and bad parts, I've always felt. Where was that boy's editor!? Ben Jonson's notorious
                  judgement of Shakespeare ("would that he had blotted a thousand!") seems more applicable
                  to Morris, except that the scaling factor is wrong (what? only a thousand?).

                  I understand about the need for escape from quotidian duties. I do mathematics and
                  (these days) programming all day, when I'm not lecturing at hapless subordinates. Literature,
                  music, screwing around with versifying are all a welcome release. Kicking the paddles
                  in TKD helps, too.

                  Socialism and the circle around Morris and Shaw -- there's material there for a substantial
                  thread. Did you ever read Shaw's essay about Morris and socialism? (This is misleading.
                  All of Shaw's essays are about himself to some degree.) :lol:

                  LSN

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    No, I haven't read Shaw on Morris, I'll have to hunt it out. I know Morris' views on Fabianism, so I can imagine what the response might be. I do know that George Orwell called Morris an "old windbag"! In some ways Morris was ahead of his times as a proto-Green. Perhaps, in the age of steam, he just couldn't have envisaged "clean" technology. I note that Ruskin seems to be coming back into vogue now as well.

                    Actually I prefer "Sigurd" to "The Earthly Paradise". I think Morris was most at home with "Nordic" themes. "The House of the Wolfings" was my favourite prose romance.
                    \"...an ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Mikey_C
                      No, I haven't read Shaw on Morris, I'll have to hunt it out. I know Morris' views on Fabianism, so I can imagine what the response might be. I do know that George Orwell called Morris an "old windbag"! In some ways Morris was ahead of his times as a proto-Green. Perhaps, in the age of steam, he just couldn't have envisaged "clean" technology. I note that Ruskin seems to be coming back into vogue now as well.

                      Actually I prefer "Sigurd" to "The Earthly Paradise". I think Morris was most at home with "Nordic" themes. "The House of the Wolfings" was my favourite prose romance.
                      We need to create a separate thread on Morris before the "off topic" police come down
                      on us. (Is Dee the chief detective of the off topic police these days? ) Actually,
                      Mr. Crosier probably won't take up his staff of office in this thread; studying poetry
                      at university appears to have left him enervated and avoidance-prone on the matter
                      of composing verses. :twisted:

                      You are a dedicated reader of Morris if you've read The House of the Wolfings.
                      I like that one quite a bit. The "fantasy" prose romances all suffer from interesting
                      problems that could be gone into in a Morris thread.

                      We should return this thread to it's original topic, now, I suppose. :lol:

                      LSN

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        I've really been enjoying everyone's submissions to this thread. Hawklord I thought your sonnet was very evocative.

                        LSN, I have endeavoured to write a second. You're right about the 2nd one being harder to write (I briefly felt aligator wrestling might be easier) but I enjoyed trying.

                        The Poet’s Dilema

                        Now, should �decrepitude’ be simply �age�;
                        And is �ignominy’ more apt than �shame�?
                        Should �mettlesome’ be chosen over �game�;
                        And would �proscenium’ outrival �stage�?

                        Does �folio’ look down on humble �page�;
                        �Incriminate’ exceed its brother �blame�;
                        Or �conflagrate’ outshine perhaps �inflame�;
                        �Incarcerate’ improve upon mere �cage�?

                        And does �the fourth dimension’ transcend �time�?
                        �Intensify’ improve upon �increase�?
                        Would �thoroughfare’ too fancy be for �street�;
                        �Environment’ be better fashioned �clime�?
                        �Cessation’ might indeed surpass �surcease’,
                        But �naval forces’ surely should be �fleet�!

                        This is the third poem I've written in fifteen years. Not exactly prolific I guess but count me in on the next session.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Clever verses, Mouser. Your attitude seemed more playful with this one. That's pretty much
                          the way I always approach these things. I'm NOT a poet. I make NO pretence to being one.
                          I'm a versifier, or, if you will, a rhymster. :-] Since my intentions aren't serious, I hope to
                          duck the charge of "poetaster."

                          Taking these things seriously would reduce me to silence. (Not a bad thing? )

                          The last set of verses, by Mouser, might well be the best of the lot, but I'm not going to
                          discriminate between any of the efforts. I received pleasure from all of them.

                          So the Mouser and I are in it for the next round, when it occurs. I'll depend on Mikey_C
                          to tell us when he's got spare cycles, and HawkLord to tell us whether he found the
                          activity personally rewarding enough to continue.

                          Doc mentioned that he'd be interested, but as in the case of Mikey_C, he apparently
                          is tied up with commitments for a while.

                          I can do this stuff standing on my head, so just about any time is okay for me.

                          Next time, we can try another sonnet, or we could go for a ballade or chant royale.
                          Mikey_C has a knack with traditional forms, it's clear, so none of these should
                          daunt him. I think the ballade is fun, but chant royale is tougher -- mostly because
                          it's longer. The ballade is long enough to say something but not long enough to
                          require major effort. Chant royale is more demanding. If you pull it off, it's nice.

                          Another avenue to explore, which might appeal to HawkLord, is to devise English
                          odes (as in "Ode to the West Wind," "Ode to a Skylark," "Ode to a Nightingale,"
                          "Ode on a Grecian Urn," ...). The Horatian Ode is simpler, and I think less interesting,
                          Andrew Marvell's contribution to the contrary.

                          My suspicion based on our verse samples is that Mikey_C could handle ottava rima
                          much as Byron used it in Don Juan. Problem is you've got to tell a story of some
                          sort in the process, and that's not easy. I, personally, would find it pretty tough, so
                          I won't suggest it as an exercise.

                          LSN

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Superb 2nd effort from the Mouser; Hawklord's too was most enjoyable. I don't really have any crushing deadlines at present - more a generalised and guilty sense of slacking off from what I should really be doing. Don't mind me, I'm just neurotic! If I retain self-discipline and restrict this activity to times when I can't possibly be doing anything more constructive, eg. sitting on the toilet, getting stuck in traffic jams, etc. I might just about be able to do some more... You guys can do two each and I'll stick to the one, maybe?

                            So what are we going for? It's an interesting way to learn about poetic forms.
                            \"...an ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by L_Stearns_Newburg
                              We need to create a separate thread on Morris before the "off topic" police come down on us. (Is Dee the chief detective of the off topic police these days? ) Actually, Mr. Crosier probably won't take up his staff of office in this thread; studying poetry at university appears to have left him ennervated and avoidance-prone on the matter of composing verses. :twisted:
                              I'm not the Topic Police, I just shine their boots. I feel that it's up to the creator of a thread to monitor its progress... on the other hand, I believe that using words I can't even find in my dictionary to mock me is exceedingly naughty. Your punishment is to use only monosyllabic words for the rest of the month, and you have to tell all of your friends that you love watching Married With Children reruns. So mote it be.

                              Now if you'll excuse me, I've got some patent leather to attend to.
                              "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by DeeCrowSeer
                                I'm not the Topic Police, I just shine their boots. I feel that it's up to the creator of a thread to monitor its progress...
                                These people aren't fascisti. They simply want the trains to run on time. :lol:

                                Actually, D, I understand your position, and I don't have a problem with it. I was
                                teasing you, and did it partly because I was curious whether you were bothering
                                to peruse this thread, given your stated aversion and desire to move beyond
                                (transcend?) this verse crap.

                                I was actually a trifle surprised that you bothered to read us.

                                Originally posted by DeeCrowSeer
                                on the other hand, I believe that using words I can't even find in my dictionary to mock me is exceedingly naughty. Your punishment is to use only monosyllabic words for the rest of the month,
                                Are you insinuating, sir, that I'm given to using language that's less than pellucid,
                                or that aspires to be pointlessly (and falsely) recondite? I'll have you know that I
                                always use the simplest possible vocabulary. There's nothing in any of my posts
                                that would befuddle the linguistic skills of the average 5th grader.


                                Originally posted by DeeCrowSeer
                                and you have to tell all of your friends that you love watching Married With Children reruns. So mote it be.
                                :? Is that some sort of stupid television show? Is it in the U.K., or is it a piece of
                                American crap? Honestly, I'm not sure what you're talking about here, so the
                                reference is lost on me.

                                Originally posted by DeeCrowSeer
                                Now if you'll excuse me, I've got some patent leather to attend to.
                                Are we in future to refer to you as "the jack-booted Mr. Crosier"? :lol:

                                LSN

                                Comment

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