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  • Transformers

    Anyone here like the Transformers?

  • #2
    Mmmmmmm yes I know what they are.....(look at my handle..the baddest most complex one of the lot) . . . interesting that there might be others here who would know as well.

    Too bad it (TFs) doesnt have the strong hand and guidence in propelling the genre forward and deveoping it into what it could be as Mr M is taking with his Elric movie.
    Ultra Magnus to Sandstorm. \"I\'ve never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. . . Alright, give me the bomb.\"

    Comment


    • #3
      Growing up, I loved the Transformers. I had a couple of toys, and a sticker album... the story tapes were the best, because of all the cool distorted robot voices and crazy sound effects. Loved them. I still enjoy the movie a lot, and get a bit of a chill when Hot Rod finally evolves into Rodimus Prime. Top stuff. I'm not sure I can remember enough to have a favourite as such, but obviously the Decepticons were the coolest because they were so bitchy (Starscream always undermining his "leader", and back-stabbing wherever possible).

      I haven't seen the new cartoons, but the toys look rather cheap and nasty. Am I just getting older, or are toys getting much smaller? You don't get nearly as much plastic for your money these days.

      D...

      "Dare to be stupid."
      "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild

      Comment


      • #4
        I was a fan of the Harmony Gold's 'ROBOTECH' series really. And watched 'Captain Harlock and the Queen Of a thousand Years' (Long Title)
        series that was on skychannel a long time ago. Although robotech had more of a soap opera feel sometimes... it was enticing stuff..

        But nowadays alot of new cartoons suck.. Everything is following in the footsteps of the Pokأ©mon franchise. Cartoon without substance.. And i really don't know whats up with this 'Dragonball' shite that has all the geeks collecting the stuff... There is no real kinda story anymore like Robotech or Cpt Harlock and even other shows like Doctor Who had.
        I think networks really underestimate kids and their abilities to observe storylines and characters. And understanding death and or sacrifice is a vital part of moral education, and excluding that from preteen culture is just stupid and really doesn't prepare kids for the real world..

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Theocrat
          But nowadays alot of new cartoons suck.. Everything is following in the footsteps of the Pokأ©mon franchise. Cartoon without substance..
          I suppose it's hard for me to compare the shows I watched as a child with what children watch nowadays, but as I say I seem to recall there being some real political manoeuvring going on in Transformers... The villains in Pokemon are funny (to me anyway), but shallow as a puddle. The Decepticons always had genuine menace, and you felt that their "allies" were in just as much danger as their "enemies". I quite enjoy Kim Possible, but only in a sub-Buffy sort of way. The PowerPuff Girls on the other hand are total genius, and I can't get enough of them. I have no idea what values they're teaching children, but at least they aren't of the avid/obsessive collecting genre.

          D...
          "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild

          Comment


          • #6
            Transformers was superb. Hails as one of the choice cartoons when I was growing up alongside Dungeons & Dragons, He-Man, Thundercats et al... you know, when cartoons were GOOD! :lol:

            Although the PS2 game is based on the 'Armada' license, it's bloody great!
            Call me cockey, but if there\'s an alien I can\'t kill, I haven\'t met him and killed him yet!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bob
              Transformers was superb. Hails as one of the choice cartoons when I was growing up alongside Dungeons & Dragons, He-Man, Thundercats et al... you know, when cartoons were GOOD! :lol:
              Thundercats, hoooooooooo!!! Top stuff. Without wishing to drag everything back to religion, a friend of mine at school wasn't allowed to watch Thundercats because his parents thought that Mumra was Satanic (well, he did call upon the "ancient spirits of evil" every week, so I suppose they had some evidence to back it up). The only problem with Mumra as a villain was that he could be defeated by the sight of his own reflection... he could summon up all of that awesome power, only to be reduced to a crying fit by something shiny! He really seemed to have some body-image issues. Poor chap. D&D was great too, even before I got into role-playing. I always identified with... was it Eric? The guy with the shield. I always like loud-mouth, comic-relief cowards. He-man was good, but secret identities always annoy me a little bit... all of that business about Adam's family thinking he's a wimp, when he's really the hero. Did anyone else go to see the He-man/She-ra crossover movie, Secret of the Sword, at the cinema?

              D...
              "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bob
                Transformers was superb. Hails as one of the choice cartoons when I was growing up alongside Dungeons & Dragons, He-Man, Thundercats et al... you know, when cartoons were GOOD! :lol:
                I always thought that He-Man was too pansy looking. Even in the early eighties..

                I thought The Dungeons and Dragons cartoon was ok at my age! But always got annoyed of the fact that the 'Cavalier' never had a sword, only a shield. Anyone remember Spacecruiser Yamato?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DeeCrowSeer
                  Growing up, I loved the Transformers. I had a couple of toys, and a sticker album... the story tapes were the best, because of all the cool distorted robot voices and crazy sound effects. Loved them. I still enjoy the movie a lot, and get a bit of a chill when Hot Rod finally evolves into Rodimus Prime. Top stuff. I'm not sure I can remember enough to have a favourite as such, but obviously the Decepticons were the coolest because they were so bitchy (Starscream always undermining his "leader", and back-stabbing wherever possible).

                  I haven't seen the new cartoons, but the toys look rather cheap and nasty. Am I just getting older, or are toys getting much smaller? You don't get nearly as much plastic for your money these days.

                  D...

                  "Dare to be stupid."
                  Ahh yes Starscream that lovable bastard F15. A cartoon character credited as being one of the most complex and layered character personas put to toy selling animation. He is SO popular with fans theres almost a sub culture in the TF fandom for /just/ Starscream. I keep wanting to do him on the sci fi alphabet thread but I keep missing S when it comes around LOL

                  And your post compelled me to the rest of mine below. Heheh dont hate me cause its long :P

                  The wonderful world of Transformers... those 'Robots in disguise' Those living, soul bearing life forms that evolved from androids on an alien planet. . . Long post ahead but hopefully informative if your curious to know . . .

                  The cartoon it seems a few here remember ^_^ was originally conceived by Hasbro to sell toys. The toy line it was trying to promote was two different Japanese robot toy lines: Diaclone and Microman. Takara and Diaclone each had two 'toy story' histories to go with these toys. In both cases the robots were simply machines for aliens or humans to pilot.

                  Along comes Bud Budiansky (sp). Hes the man I believe was responsible for a lot of the names and initial personas of these /toy/ robots for Hasbro and Marvel comics to change it all and make it something more compelling.

                  The two toy lines were put together and a new story was made to promote them. (By the way, most Diaclone toys became 'Decepticons' (but not all) and most Microman became Autobots (but not all) . . Megatron was a Microman, Bumblebee (the little yellow Autobot beetlebug) if I recall correctly was a Diaclone for example) . . . the story was of a living race of robots, put forever against each other by fundamental ancestral programming and product line differences (as per the /cartoon/ canon . . . the comic differed greatly.).

                  What Hasbro didn't realize at the time was a cartoon strictly aimed at selling toys to pre-teen and early teen boys, had also attracted girls, parents and other people of all ages. The present TF fanbase is comprised of ages from early teen (thanks to the new shows) to mid 40s in age. Hasbro gave lip service to the older fans they moderately recognized and I believe that's why the movie was PG for some content in it. But Hasbro being the corporate machine that they are, refused to split the series off: one for legitimate science fiction and the other to sell toys. Recently though, both Hasbro and Takara have re-released a LOT of the original Transformers (known under the fan term of 'G1'..which has now been officially picked up by Takara and Hasbro)

                  The original series ended with a debacle 3 part episode called 'The Rebirth' (which is an absolute topic of Armageddon in the fandom . . . and that's just the tip of the iceberg concerning how some elements of the fandom are discussed). The fandom went underground and for the next several years there were fanzines, clubs and when the internet got going websites, RPG rooms (mushes), message boards, artwork and thousands of fan fic everywhere. Some of which has made semi-official print

                  The simple cartoon of the 80s has become an underground sci-fi culture of adults who want nothing more then to see it made ADULT. The elements for some killer science fiction reside in that cartoon. And its an element that Hasbro still refuses to acknowledge in the seriousness that so many of us want.

                  Now, I commented on the comic above. The comic Marvel put out the same time Sunbow did the cartoon had a completely different history and events for. The cartoon has withstood time well. Its basic concept on how these living machines came to be is solid. The comic on the other hand is juvanile and just an instult to intelligence. Interesting to note that the older percentage of fans favor the cartoon as the basis for Adult TFs. The comic is just....*shiver* lets not go there. But it has its fans and has effectively split the fandom down the middle. Half the fans are /for/ the cartoon canon, the other half for the cartoon canon. Officially Hasbro now has Dreamwave trying to merge the two together (as well as all the other bad 'TF corporate choices' they made) and its causing an even bigger split through the fandom. Tread lightly on TF messageboard with a lot of topics, and there a good number of boards out there. There are TF conventions, bigger clubs, fanzines, RPG groups. Official clubs, music., just lots of stuff.

                  lThere is also a live action movie now on the planning board in Hollywood. But most in charge of that have their fan roots based on the marvel comic and its caused even more grief in the fandom . . . Hasbro /still/ refuses to split G1 off from the rest and let it go fully adult. Its still being handled as a kids product and all the G1 characters have since grown on and have become entities of their own (metaphorically speaking) and more and more fans are wanting officially sanctioned, true adult G1 canon.

                  The other shows that followed G1 are:

                  Beast Wars (an ok idea as a stand alone show until the writers found a major fan TF site on line and decided to /try/ and incorporate G1 history and characters which is now another HUGE sore spot in the fandom)

                  Beast Machines (pathetic . . . its been brushed under the carpet by all save for the lap dogs Dreamwave)

                  Robots in Disguise (poorly translated Japanese TF cartoon brought over as 'filler' by Hasbro while Armada was in 'development')

                  Armada (basically is Pokeman Transformers . . . or as I termed it, Pokeformers (and my term spread like wild fire LOL)

                  Energon (continuation of Armada mixed with a hodge-podge of other canons and characters for absolutely no reason other then to sell toys)

                  Universe (toy line right now . . . scary thought when /that/ show comes out)

                  All of which are just blatant toy commercials and toy mold rehashings. Though the Starscream character in Armada (who was not the G1 SS) was compelling as his continuation in the Energon series. OH yea name use . . . Hasbro constantly reuses original G1 character names to keep the copyrights and nothing more. Though they lost the copyright to Hot Rod and Bluestreak so their reissues have slightly different names . . . it gets really confusing. And the personas are not kept either. We have the original Decepticon 'Laserbeak' and now we have the Autobot 'Laserbeak'. That makes is even more maddening. I can think of 4 different Megatrons that are not the same entity. The only thing they share is name and Decepticon leader but have no relation to each other after that. Just annoying . . .

                  G1 is its own genre now with fierce loyalty and amazing fan contributions in adult fiction and artwork. I grabbed some images from this one TF fan artists site and thought you might like to see a few(?)

                  Here is a picture of G1 Autobot Prowl in robot mode (root mode) in his Cybertronian form:

                  http://www.tfclub.com/tffiles/pic/ma...70005_2577.jpg

                  Heres a pic of G1 Prowl in his earth alternate mode form:

                  http://www.tfclub.com/tffiles/pic/ma...80008_3749.jpg

                  Heres a picture of G1 Megatron (Decepticon leader):

                  http://www.tfclub.com/tffiles/pic/ma...10019_2759.jpg

                  Here is an AWESOME picture of G1 Optimus Prime and G1 Rodimus Prime (my personal fav of the two Autobot leaders)

                  http://www.tfclub.com/tffiles/pic/ma...60072_1531.jpg

                  Anyone remember the Constructicons? The 6 who combined together to form G1 Devastator?

                  http://www.tfw2005.com/albums/Makoto_Ono/mo_group1.jpg

                  And as for my handle on this board? Heres a pic of G1 Starscream:



                  There is even better artwork out there but this guy is pretty darn good. If you notice, the characters dont have that 'toy look' childs level feel to them.

                  And heres a slightly more grittier artist impression of Starscream (done by someone other then the one who did the rest of the pics Im showing here):

                  http://www.sitefights.com/community/...scream_wam.jpg

                  Japan took the original G1 Transformer series and after the end of season three split it off continuing into a completely different canon. Thankfully they had sense to disregard 'The Rebirth' (which was the short lived 4th season of the US show) and has been carrying it since the US canceled it. There is Victory, Masterforce, BWII, just to name a few.

                  And Ive mentioned only three canons (actually I think there are like 5-7 different official canons to the transformers), plus the bastardized one Dreamwave is putting out right now. There is an abundance of continuity conflicts in all canons and against each other. There are like 4 G1 canons and none of them FIT!!!!!!!!!!! and yet they are suppose to all be on the same plane with the same characters in the same timeline .. *sigh* Even looking at this with a 'Multiverse' attitude its not workable -- or just barely. And through it all the older G1 fans are still hoping that some day a truly adult, no toy marketing, attempt will be made to bring it fully into science fiction.

                  Ok so thats more then you wanted to know LOL And thats just the tip of the iceberg of the Transformer culture . . .
                  Ultra Magnus to Sandstorm. \"I\'ve never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. . . Alright, give me the bomb.\"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Starscream
                    The wonderful world of Transformers... those 'Robots in disguise' Those living, soul bearing life forms that evolved from androids on an alien planet. . . Long post ahead but hopefully informative if your curious to know . . .
                    A long post perhaps, but never dull! I knew there was still alot of love out there for the toys, but I didn't realize there was so much controversy in the canon.

                    Still, I think it's easy to see the potential for an adult-oriented series. These were huge robots from space who disguise themselves as everything from your car to a cassette recorder to a bomber plane. If they set their minds to wiping out the puny humans, there could be a lot of good solid paranoia to be mined there for dramatic purposes. It doesn't take a great deal of vision to see the potential there, and if there are enough fans already in place demanding it and willing to give it all the "word-of-mouth" advertising you could ask for... well, it seems very silly of the copyright holders not to at least try a pilot, or a TV movie or something.

                    D...
                    "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There's a bunch of really cool Tranformers wallpapers at AnimeWallpapers.com. I've got a bunch from there. There are a few popups on the site though, so block them or just do some extra clicking.

                      There are alot of great wallpapers there so the popups are tolerable.

                      I've got a cool Ghost in the Shell one up right now.

                      Transformers page:
                      http://www.animewallpapers.com/wallpapers/transformers/
                      When they had advanced together to meet on common
                      ground, then there was the clash of shields, of spears
                      and the fury of men cased in bronze; bossed shields met
                      each other and the din rose loud. Then there were
                      mingled the groaning and the crowing of men killed and
                      killing, and the ground ran with blood.

                      Homer, The Illiad

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DeeCrowSeer
                        Originally posted by Starscream
                        The wonderful world of Transformers... those 'Robots in disguise' Those living, soul bearing life forms that evolved from androids on an alien planet. . . Long post ahead but hopefully informative if your curious to know . . .
                        A long post perhaps, but never dull! I knew there was still alot of love out there for the toys, but I didn't realize there was so much controversy in the canon.
                        Controversy doesnt even begin to describe it. And thinking about TF 'canon':

                        The G1 UK comics,
                        G1 US comics
                        The UK Ladybird G1 books
                        The US G1 Cartoon

                        Those are the ones that come to mind right off. I think theres more. This is just for G1.

                        The comic and cartoon had a chance to mirror each other in the beginning but Budiansky decided to write the comic from a slightly different angle. Then along comes Simon Furman Who, as he told me once, saw an opportunity to split if off from the cartoon and make something different. Of course, he NEVER had the foresight to realize the absolute turmoil he would cause the fandom in the future. I hold Furman responsible for at least half of the problems this franchise has story wise ....err.. told him that too . . . the man incorporated ideas that just made NO SENSE into the concept of living machines. A lot of the present fanbase is the target audience originally and they happen to have a louder voice then the 'other' side of the fandom (cartoon fans). The chaos of the comic is what they grew up on and its all they know and it seems they are afraid to look at it in a different way. And will tell you what to do with your ideas as well. Whenever anything is done 'new' for G1 its almost always /comic/ canon based which is like salt in an open wound to the cartoon fandom. What makes it even worse is the cartoon has a stronger backstory for potential and to see it over looked for the ramblings of a writer who...who....arg....its like banging your head against a brick wall. You see people flock and defend what boils down to a childs idea of sci fi. You see what the /other/ canon could be and its so frustrating to see it so ignored for . . . sand box plots and handling.

                        The TF fandom is a very rocky place to be. As long as you like Furman and the comics and kiss up to the corporation youre fine. Dare say anything 'bad' about /that/ canon and look out. Theres a major TF masseaboard that will DELETE anything you say critical of Dreamwave and not look kindly to you for saying the same about Furman. Odd its a messageboard that Hasbro and Dreamwave frequent . . . It can get bad out there. The controversy, the frustration of so many who just want to see this make it to true adult sci fi and to watch the corporate machine and fans who are only interested in the most superficial aspects of G1 win every time. Hasbro just refuses to treat the TF as anything other then toy marketing. They get writers who are supposedly making it more adult. But all they are ending up doing is making it more of a slap stick adolescent attempt at adult. Dreamwave, I think knows this and is relying more and more on the art to sell the issues. A lot of fans have flat out admitted that will buy /anything/ G1 simply because its G1 and a lot have said they only buy the comics for the art because its so good. DW has taken those opinions straight to the bank and are pushing the chances further and further back of it ever being made true adult sci fi.

                        I am a BIG part of the TF fandom. Im hated as much as Im loved. Ive got fans that agree with me and want me to try and do something about. But Ive gone through things from the comic fans that no one should have to for stating my opinion and wanting to see the idea evolve into what it could be. You would not believe some of what Ive been told to go do, what I am etc etc. Yea perhaps I brought some of it on myself cause I can state my opinions pretty fierce. *tries to look innocent* . . . but I was never like that in the beginning. I learned real fast how it goes in the TF fandom.

                        Odd note here: It took a fan to show the corporation how to draw them. Its going to take a fan to show the corporation how to write them. I could have been and almost was that fan, but I held to my principles and in that I think I shot myself in the foot . . . (long story)

                        Still, I think it's easy to see the potential for an adult-oriented series. These were huge robots from space who disguise themselves as everything from your car to a cassette recorder to a bomber plane. If they set their minds to wiping out the puny humans, there could be a lot of good solid paranoia to be mined there for dramatic purposes. It doesn't take a great deal of vision to see the potential there, and if there are enough fans already in place demanding it and willing to give it all the "word-of-mouth" advertising you could ask for... well, it seems very silly of the copyright holders not to at least try a pilot, or a TV movie or something.

                        D...
                        It is easy to see the potential for adult fiction in the G1 TF universe. But theres no wisdom out there in any position to see it. Hasbro is only interested in what they can make as fast as they can. They don’t seem to want to cultivate for long term continual revenue. There are those of us who have tried every approach in the book to get them to see it otherwise but we are just ignored, edited and told to get out.. . literally. They seem scared to let go of the copyrights on G1 and let someone take it where it can go. They think they are catering to the older fan with the collectable G1 toy releases and statues and other G1 character collectibles. And they keep missing the mark on what we really want. NO one wants to or can seperate the toys from the concept and go from there. And a lot of the comic fans to me seem to be unable to accept a TF story thats more then a toy story . . . if that makes any sense. And to those of us who can see it for what it could be, this other mentality is just destroying what it could be.

                        Now I have to admit that the first issue of the first TF mini series that Dreamwave comics printed had the most wicked scene in the beginning. Two mercenaries were in the woods keeping guard. One walks off to relieve himself, he hears a noise . . . you see a large gray hand reach down, pick him up, wad him up like a piece of paper, and toss him down. ....You go Megatron whoo whoo.....and thats is how it would be when you think about it. Yea thats gritty and dark and 'adult'. But that’s not quot what many of us want to see though. Yes violence is a part of the G1 TFs. But you have to have the whole world they are in as adult as you trying to make them. And you have to break them out of toy concept first off. And theres no one out there in any official postition whos come close. But that [scene] is the ‘adult’ the corporation /thinks/ we want *sigh* Yea that was a pretty dark ‘real’ situation we saw . . . it made some of us think this might be it. what made Megatron do that? What type of panic is this going to cause i the humans? . . .but it went down hill from there. Before it was over it was just marvel all over again. The comic fans say theres cartoon elements in the new series. A lot of cartoon fans see nothing of the sort. The G1 cartoon is misunderstood right at the source and that’s making it even harder to get anywhere with it.

                        And heres an example of the mentality that the adult fans who want adult stories have to contend with:

                        Because Dreamwave is a comic company putting out a TF comic, because the cartoon was in a different format (ie animation) it therefore does not belong on comic pages . . . 8O The original TF comic was for adolescents and promoted senseless juvenile violence . . . that theme should be maintained because its in comic format . . .

                        The comic fans couldnt be happier. They got what they wanted. The cartoon fans have been left out in the cold again. But as any TF comic fan will tell you. 'You have all the G1 episodes on DVD now. . . . go watch them and be happy. Go read the tons of fan fic out there and be happy . . .’

                        Its interesting to note that slowly some of these new comic fans are finally seeing the story caliber for what it is and are starting to talk about it. ^_^

                        Ohyea . . . the TF fandom can made the Star Trek and Star Wars fandom look like happy clubs . . .
                        Ultra Magnus to Sandstorm. \"I\'ve never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. . . Alright, give me the bomb.\"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I am a hardcore Transformers-a-holic. Being as I was 11 when the series came out, it's pretty much been with me my whole life. While, like Starscream here, I am a Starscream (the TF CHARACTER) fan, I prolly have a bit different interest in him than that...

                          Simon Furman's work reeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaally screwed things up hardcore. I prefer the cartoon canon pure and straight up.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by VonWeiner
                            There's a bunch of really cool Tranformers wallpapers at AnimeWallpapers.com. I've got a bunch from there. There are a few popups on the site though, so block them or just do some extra clicking.

                            There are alot of great wallpapers there so the popups are tolerable.

                            I've got a cool Ghost in the Shell one up right now.

                            Transformers page:
                            http://www.animewallpapers.com/wallpapers/transformers/
                            Theres a mixture of Armada and G1 Transformer images for the TF wallpaper they have. The one on page two with G1 Megatron and Optimus Prime is just stunning. The art style looks familiar. And its Japanese....they REALLY know how to draw G1 TFs. ^_^

                            Sheba? Sheba ^_^ Yes, one of the new Multiverse fans :D I cant wait till you finish the Elric series ^_^
                            Ultra Magnus to Sandstorm. \"I\'ve never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. . . Alright, give me the bomb.\"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I loved transformers when I was a young lad...
                              I still have the comics and a load of boxed Transformers somewhere.
                              I know I have Grimlock, Jazz, Thrust...can't remember the rest. Ah -those were the days... :D

                              Comment

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