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"Alternative" Music anyone?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by krunky
    I knew Courtney back in the day.
    Now she looks like a freak - what happened to the trashy girl next door that I knew? Only many thousands of dollars of plastic surgery can make a person look that divorced from their own humanity.

    I think I have read about the death scene discrepancies, and yeah she looks good for a murder charge. It could have been some sicko assisted suicide thing too. Drug addicts are a pain in the arse that way - anything could have happened really.

    Does she seem like she's enjoying herself? In my opinion, not really...
    It's funny that CL is in what I consider two of the most depressing movies in the world. She's in "Sid and Nancy," when she was young and plump. A very depressing movie indeed! And she was in "The People Vs. Larry Flint." I never watched it. It was on HBO before, and I often barely pay attention when I have the tv on. In that movie she looked so grotesque that it depressed me. haha
    Recently, I saw her on Howard Stern on E! channel. She is strange looking with her botox inflated lips. She cried for no reason. She percieved that Howard made a patronizing remark about her child or her relationship with her child, when he didn't. She cried and showed anger in response to an imagined comment. To me it's an obvious sign of mental instability if not full-blown mental illness. Scary.
    Maybe she did murder Kurt. Hmmm....

    Since plastic surgery was mentioned...
    Let's consider celebrities who have chosen to MUTILATE THEIR FACES UNDER THE PLASTIC SURGEON'S KNIFE! :) ::applause:: Woo Hoo!!!

    Well we already know Michael Jackson is not only the King of Pop, but he is also "The Emporer of Face-Mutilating Plastic Surgery Butchery!"
    Who else comes to mind besides MJ and Courtney Love?
    Joan Rivers of course! What an alien!
    I saw Barry Manilow on MSNBC recently. He kind of looks like Joan Rivers now! They look look like brother and sister Muppets. They should co-host the Muppet Show together. It would be so believable, no need for a make-up dept. on that episode of the show!
    Meg Ryan looks related to C. Love now with those botox inflated donut excuse for lips!
    Did you see what Marie Osmond did to herself? She actually turned out to be a hottie-- an actual MILF in my opinion. But then she got surgery, and now she looks related to Barry, Joan, Meg, and Courtney, and I believe is afraid to show her face in public now.

    Are they all getting surgery from the same plastic surgeon/ artist/ mutilator? If so, he seems to be real good, getting that "alien-thing look" down to a science! Consider the CGI used in the Soundgarden video, Black Hole Sun-- maybe the surgeon is inspired by the faces in that video. WOW! He's a genius if that's the case!

    This plastic surgery phenomenon points out a mental malignancy rampant in our society. Are all these examples outliers of the statistics of the general population? Is it because actors/ entertainers are narcissistic and loathe the natural aging process, often spitting at what they see in the mirror? Maybe, but the desire for plastic surgery is only one indicator of our self-esteem issues.
    I wonder how many women get breast implants? I know at least two women who got them. I know it's a procedure not restricted to those in entertainment. What about liposuction?
    Damn it's gotta be hard to be a woman-- being historically treated inferior to the hairier testosterone driven gender-- who's quality of life is greatly determined on "how she looks." Considering women, there's more than plastic surgery going on. There are the full-blown illnesses: anorexia and bullemia. And now these illnesses aren't restricted to women, but men also.
    What do men think when they see images of Sylvester Stallone (especially in Rocky III), and now Brad Pitt? They probably think: "I wish I had a physique like that; well I can try. I'm gonna go to the gym everyday!" And they go buy the "magic bullets." Trimspa. Ammino Acids. Creatine. What about hair replacement? Hair transplantation anyone? Rogaine? Propecia? How about penis enlargement? Viagra? Oh yeah. Liposuction too. Botox too! Men are having the same distorted self-image as a lot of women now. "Please fix my face, doc. Inject me with botox."
    If the guy looks at Brad Pitt and says, "I look good as him" or even, "Haha! Pitt! I'm way more ripped than him!" They are the kind of guys who go and pump iron 5 or 6 days a week and look in the mirror a lot. I know, they are the kind of guys y'all women love! Right? Well I wonder what kind of stuff these kinds of men think about? What are they thinking during that 3 hours in the gym? I suspect base Fruedian thought patterns: "OOO yeah! Look at my muscles. Ripped! YEAH! Got to go do one more set. Get the burn, baby! My baby is gonna worship my bod when I fuck her(?) tonight! [Let's not forget the "baby" he's thinking about might be a same-sex baby ("him" instead of "her"):!:] Shit, some of these guys would fuck themselves if they could-- if the image in the mirror would step out, incarnate. Hey there's nothing wrong with physical fitness. Excercise is important. But working out 6 days a week in order to look like Schwarzenegger, Stallone, or Pitt is another thing though. Healthy? In my opinion, no. Instead, evidence of "mental unfitness!"

    What kind of crazy ass shit has this world turned into? Is this problematic of America only? Please, my European and Scandinavian friends, tell me if this is so?
    Is there the possiblity of a World Full of Muppets?

    Goddamn! I might I be the only writer in the world that writes this kind of shit? Maybe I'll start a new market. The Ugly Truth movement!
    \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
    Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview

    Comment


    • #17
      Hey Jerico,

      What do you think of people who have plastic surgery to look weird rather than beautiful?

      I have heard of a woman who has had horns surgically attached to her head, and a bloke who had his tongue forked to look more like a snake (he has an all over snake pattern tattoo).

      What about temporary cosmetic changes such as bleaching blonde and fake tans (girls and guys). Beautiful people are going ugly because they lack confidence.

      I was recently a bridesmaid at my sisters wedding and was instructed to get a tan and iron the curls out of my hair. I didn't, and when I watched the video they had toned down the camera so that they'd look less orange and I looked like An albino with a black wig on!

      Back to plastic surgery, most of that stuff is just fucking dangerous and I don't know how people can take the risk of permanent disfigurement for "beauty".
      I have seen rubber masks of Micheal Jackson that look more realistic than he does, and some of these women with breast implants look like they've got a couple of footballs up their tops, breasts aren't that shape are they? mine aren't!

      No it's not just America, the done thing in my town for tarty women is to pull a bloke from Manchester and get him to pay for breast implants.

      I think people should accept how they look as an individual and damn well stop trying to look like everyone else.

      Comment


      • #18
        Well, Etive, you just hit on the key part of this: most people call themselves "individuals" but act completely the opposite. Any "scene" is really just a bunch of people acting and dressing the same. I always laugh inside when I see a group of people with whatever the "hip" thing of the day is (ink, piercings, hair, baggy pants) and there are 8 or 10 of them ALL DRESSED THE SAME. That's not being an individual, that's being a clone. I lived in Los Angeles for about half a year and was amazed; I thought going down to Sunset Strip would be this awesome, cutting edge thing, and I would go to the Rainbow and meet and hangout with Lemmy and Axl Rose and Lita Ford... instead I got annoyed by 50 guys who were trying to look like Lemmy and 55 women trying to look like Lita Ford (and all 105 didn't have a clue how to do it). It was very dissappointing.

        The trick is to be pierced, tattooed, and baggy-pants-wearing in and amongst a bunch of suits.

        Sorry to be too graphic here, but isn't part of the thrill to be with someone and know that her breasts or his/her whatevers are unique? Instead of bought off the shelf? In this sense, I think Michael is correct in his assessment of pornography; the women themselves may not be exploited in the true sense, but once the "look" becomes de rigour or the "look" can be bought out of a doctor's catalogue, doesn't it become a commodity? And at that point, isn't it by definition exploited?

        Comment


        • #19
          You're right Bill. There are too many people in the world, so people should be trying to stand out rather than blend in if they want to be noticed (it's pretty logical really).

          I think more people would express themselves artistically if they didn't feel under threat, or afraid of what others might think of them.

          I have a hobby of going to women's sites on the net and making sure they have articles on GAINING weight and ANTI cosmetic surgery articles highlighting the dangers. I think a lot of these sites are unbalanced and dictating the "law" of fashion to often vulnerable people.

          Would you say that the price of celebrity is now too high, with all the press attention taking away the privacy of a famous person and always commenting on how they look e.t.c?

          Comment


          • #20
            Like anything else, plastic surgery can be used or abused.

            Certainly no one would fault a person with a cleft palate for having a surgeon make their face whole. And I think a woman who suffered teasing her entire adolescent-to-young-adult life for being flat-chested can greatly benefit psychologically from getting some c-cup implants put in if she wanted.

            Then you have people like Michael Jackson, who is just a freak now, and Sigourney Weaver, who simply looks like someone entirely different (seriously, look at her in Galaxy Quest and compare her face to what it looked like in Alien. Total overhaul.).

            Originally posted by Bill
            the women themselves may not be exploited in the true sense, but once the "look" becomes de rigour or the "look" can be bought out of a doctor's catalogue, doesn't it become a commodity? And at that point, isn't it by definition exploited?
            Absolutely! Especially when they feel they have to get all the surgery in order to keep up with the competition.
            "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
            --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

            Comment


            • #21
              Good point, Psychic; I think you do have to separate out those that need the technology to live a normal life.

              I don't know if the price is too high, since so many people are willing to pay it. Everybody wants to be a celebrity these days. Look at the plethora of reality shows. And just about every "contestant" is really looking for something beyond the immediate "game" (by the way, to my mind, these are not "games" in the true sense of the word). I think it goes without saying that only one (ONE!) out of all the reality contestants have done anything in the realm of arts (Colleen from one of the Survivors had a co-starring role opposite Rob Schneider. It helped that she was cute).

              Shoot, when even someone as beautiful as Michelle Pfeiffer (rumored to have had some work done) succumbs to the pressure, that should say something.

              In a twisted sense, you have to respect the Paul Newman's and Keith Richards' of the world for letting nature run its course. The hard thing is that what I find attractive is getting harder and harder to find.

              Comment


              • #22
                Another good example is Jennifer Grey (Baby, from "Dirty Dancing"). She was pretty in a unique way, then got her nose "fixed". She is still pretty, but in a much more bland, generic, Hollywood way. A shame really.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Whereas Jamie Lee Curtis, who has shunned plastic surgery (and recently makeup), is still a hottie!
                  "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
                  --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Wow. Great points everybody, and Psychic for pointing out the
                    other side of the coin. No doubt the plastic surgery thing has
                    everything to do with psychology. In all the cases
                    the patient is doing it "to better themselves."
                    Well in the case of cleft palate correction or a woman with
                    no boobs, yeah I would agree that they are doing themselves
                    some good. But I believe most plastic surgery is done on
                    perfectly normal people. I'll admit that I think I could use some
                    liposuction, hair transplantation, and/ or Lasik surgery. (The pics of myself I have on the net are a few years old now and not entirely accurate! And
                    as soon as I have any good new ones maybe I'll put them up. Well... maybe not! :roll:) But will I get those procedures done? Well I think I'm more prone to doing the Lasik thing first, but only on one eye! Don't ask! I'm weird that's all. :o

                    I once worked with this hot blonde who looked somewhat like the porn star Jenna Jameson. She was petite with a nice body with natural C-cup breasts. Well she decided to get implants, and everyone thought that she was crazy, especially her boyfriend. Me being a friend, did everything possible to convince her not to do it. The manager had her go talk to Human Resources, probably not only to negotiate the time off that it would require, and whether or not her benefits cover it, but also to have a semi-psychological evaluation of her.
                    So she got the surgery and you know what happened besides her breasts being super-giant on her little frame? Within a few months she ended gaining at least 20 to 30 pounds and, ended up not looking so hot in the tight jeans and belly shirts that she liked to wear.
                    Well she could consider herself lucky. Some risks didn't come into play. There could have been complications in surgery, not to mention some women end up with autoimmune disease.
                    \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
                    Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Bill
                      I don't know if the price is too high, since so many people are willing to pay it. Everybody wants to be a celebrity these days. Look at the plethora of reality shows.
                      It's true. There are at least two shows that I know of based on plastic surgery. One on one of the main networks, ABC I believe? What's the name? Million Dollar Makeover, something-like-that (SLT). Then there's one on MTV called I Want A Famous Face, SLT.
                      The MTV show has an episode that many will find disturbing. It's about this "girl" named Jessica (?) who wants surgery to make her look like Jennifer Lopez. Well she doen't look like Jennifer Lopez at all; in fact something about this lady looks strange. The "IT'S A MAN, BAYBEE!" alarm went off in my head, and yes as the show unfolded my suspicion was confirmed as Jessica is a trannie who still has her manly sausage package, but had started her hormone replacement treatments.
                      I consider myself highly desensitized-- not much shocks me-- but I found that episode of I Want a Famous Face to be a bit disturbing. Take my word for it, or see it for yourself. MTV replays its shows a lot.
                      \"Bush\'s army of barmy bigots is the worst thing that\'s happened to the US in some years...\"
                      Michael Moorcock - 3am Magazine Interview

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        And then there's "The Swan." Take a bunch of average women, make them beautiful, then have them compete in a beauty contest.

                        In other words, build up their self esteem, then tear it back down again. This is modern entertainment?
                        "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
                        --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Jerico
                          Originally posted by Bill
                          I don't know if the price is too high, since so many people are willing to pay it. Everybody wants to be a celebrity these days. Look at the plethora of reality shows.
                          It's true. There are at least two shows that I know of based on plastic surgery. One on one of the main networks, ABC I believe? What's the name? Million Dollar Makeover, something-like-that (SLT). Then there's one on MTV called I Want A Famous Face, SLT.
                          The MTV show has an episode that many will find disturbing. It's about this "girl" named Jessica (?) who wants surgery to make her look like Jennifer Lopez. Well she doen't look like Jennifer Lopez at all; in fact something about this lady looks strange. The "IT'S A MAN, BAYBEE!" alarm went off in my head, and yes as the show unfolded my suspicion was confirmed as Jessica is a trannie who still has her manly sausage package, but had started her hormone replacement treatments.
                          I consider myself highly desensitized-- not much shocks me-- but I found that episode of I Want a Famous Face to be a bit disturbing. Take my word for it, or see it for yourself. MTV replays its shows a lot.

                          Dude, I had a feeling about that "chick". The alarm bells rang in my head too. I never watched it but when I saw the promos with her/him in it I said the same thing - especially when Jessica talked. How funny!

                          I think most of these people who are on these shows should go to a shrink first. They all seem to have major problems accepting themselves, kind of a self-loathing. It is sad. Especially on that show "The Swan". The girls on that are very troubled.
                          When they had advanced together to meet on common
                          ground, then there was the clash of shields, of spears
                          and the fury of men cased in bronze; bossed shields met
                          each other and the din rose loud. Then there were
                          mingled the groaning and the crowing of men killed and
                          killing, and the ground ran with blood.

                          Homer, The Illiad

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Yeah - I couldn't agree more, Bill.

                            People seem to have lost the sense of what beauty can mean, and it can mean lots of different things! I have a beauty ideal that accepts lots of different colors and shapes, leaps over gender concerns, and only cares if the hair looks good because if there is no hair - that's okay too. I certainly have a sense of beauty though - I know when I think a person is attractive or unattractive.

                            I'm looser about body modifications than are many - I know lots of modified people. I think it's more interesting when someone does something to distinguish themselves from the pack, but I guess I'm okay with people doing whatever anyways.

                            For myself, I do not choose partners that are modified beyond tattooing or peircing. Cosmetic surgery seems like a cheat that goes to other pyschological issues - but maybe that's just my prejudices showing.

                            As to my own body, I have neither tattoos nor piercings (except one in each ear).

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Jamie Lee Curtis - fake boobs (I'm pretty sure). And she admits to other stuff too (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...iz/2207493.stm).

                              My only point is that you cannot compare yourself to people whose whole life and career it is to look good. If you had that as a job, you'd look as "good" as they do also. When you meet such people in real life, it's scary - they're thin and harsh looking - just as Robt. Crumb has observed.

                              [Quick sidebar: I once briefly met Crumb, Aline and John Waters after they had dinner together in Berkeley. Waters walked me and my SO down the street for about a mile and asked about our occult interests and recent reading. Totally cool guy.]

                              Me, I like real, ordinary people. That's beauty.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                "My only point is that you cannot compare yourself to people whose whole life and career it is to look good."

                                Well, that is a consideration; their income is arguably tied to their looks. So to them, I imagine a face lift is the equivalent to CLE (Continuting Legal Education, a requirement several states have to retain your license).

                                "Me, I like real, ordinary people. That's beauty."

                                I used to have this thing: if you could without being a stalker ( :D )check someone out as soon as they step out of the shower. If they are attractive at that time, then you are on to something.

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