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The Passion of Seneca?

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  • The Passion of Seneca?

    I don't wanna butt-in-to anyone's religious convictions about jesus. But to me the 'Passion' seems to follow along the lines of a roman play.

    Food for thought:
    http://www.nazarenus.com

    The imagery in TPOTC seems overwhelming. Like watching old murals depicting the said event which was to "Redeem" us. I can imagine the religious right in america having a fieldtrip over this one. As i saw on the culture news, that they would "stand outside the cinema and answer questions one might have about jesus". The first questions i would have, would be about the somewhat false imagery itself:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/21/arts/21JESU.html

    While i guess that the movie is meant to be 'iconographic' in a way.
    I cant help but wonder if it isn't gonna help these people have their way with the youth of today:

    http://www.ccci.org/

    These people's unquestioning behaviour is about as sick as any fanatically followed religion.. And are part of the main backers for the movie itself being made. I once saw a "hidden camera" video of a sermon involving "Our Last days until Judgement Day". The theme of it was about how the description of Armageddon was linked to nuclear war, and that "Christians the world over should embrace such a scenario taking place". Who it was i cant really say, but it was made clear that it was the religious right of america.

    If i had Kids or even young teenagers i would keep them away from this movie atleast until the video is released in the store's.

    I myself am not anti-christian. Having friends that are christians, but what gives me the cold chill of doom is movies like this being made to propagandazise religion. Which is both a risky business and an unneccesary one at that.

  • #2
    Re: The Passion of Seneca?

    Theocrat:

    All too true. The dying god image is indeed a very old one. And I figure practically everyone reading these boards is at least a closet Jungian or has some sympathy with the work of Frazier or Campbell.

    Maybe the problem is confusing what is a useful spiritual or psychological truth with actual facts. What I mean is that even I, a secular pagan, cannot deny the resonance of certain kinds of mythological imagery. Such imagery does seem to bounce around inside of one and demand attention. But taking that experience and assuming that it has an importance in the real world is a whole other thing.

    What is missing is the wink of the shaman to explain away the cosmic mysteries and return one to the simple and real world. One minute you are filling eternity and grooving with the cosmos and the next you have to go and unstop the toilet. Such is life. A wink and a smile does help at such times.

    I come very close to being anti-religious, but not necessarily anti-spiritual. I do find the activities of some religious groups extremely worrying.

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    • #3
      I have not seen this movie but from what I heard it seems to create it's own things. For example I heard the devil is potrayed as androgynous and anthropomorphic. Anyway I am not going to judge the movie until I see it myself.

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      • #4
        Well, I'm more or less in agreement with a fairly recent British prime minister, back in the days when we were all genuinely secular in our politics. Clem Attlee said 'I agree with the principles, but I hate the mumbo jumbo." What a shame the secular world had to drag God in and so further vulgarise religion and public discourse.

        Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
        The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
        Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


        Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
        The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
        Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

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        • #5
          Yep.. the Dying god is an old one..

          Sounds like taoism just there:
          "One minute you are filling eternity and grooving with the cosmos and the next you have to go and unstop the toilet. Such is life".

          Yes.. i think the same way when it comes to mysticism and sprituality.
          Or life in general sometimes. But in that thought i wont let it rule me.
          Although i like the philosophy of taoism, i dont like the organized or structured form of it.. As it is just a thing of our need of control over life or just programming it all over again..

          The problem i feel with Christian though (or philosphy), is that it only accepts the good, never once letting go of it and just be at one with oneself and mayhaps the world. "Man always tries to make himself the center of his universe, but mans universe is at his center".

          And Christian's as people (sometimes more than most) always delve into some form of naive thought. As well as biased thinking, or not thinking for that matter..

          "Such imagery does seem to bounce around inside of one and demand attention. But taking that experience and assuming that it has an importance in the real world is a whole other thing."

          Like it was illustrated in "Behold The Man", sure!

          Just like romanticism had problems being incorporated into the dawning industrial age of the 19th century. A dreamworld to create castles in the clouds cost's too much if u ask me.. :)
          But it's pretty..

          Gotta go... my beds screaming for me.. :)

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          • #6
            Behold the Man has been reviewed in the Christian press and received pretty good reviews because the basic idea is about a man who 'imitates' Christ, sacrificing himself so that the gospels will be 'true'. Only amongst know-nothing fundamentalists was there any outrage expressed, as I've described elsewhere. I hate that kind of attitude, no matter what religion is being promoted. I've said elsewhere that only those who are seriously disturbed and not very smart tend to go for so-called fundamentalism and such people in power are always dangerous to the majority. The more they are resisted, throughout the media, the healthier our society is, in my view. The less they are resisted, the more we are in trouble.

            Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
            The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
            Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


            Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
            The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
            Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

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            • #7
              Last night I went to sleep thinking about the idea that we are all Eternal Champions... I dreamt that I was summoned by a dying Elric so that I could complete his unfinished task and blow the horn of fate three times to herald in a new age. I woke myself up just before Stormbringer could take me though! Now I wonder is it possible that, that plane I saved was in fact real and I only thought I dreamt?

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              • #8
                I was just talking to the 3rd person ever to immigrate to Canada from Afghanistan. He said it all went wrong when the Soviets moved into Afghanistan in the mid 70s. The British and American foriegn embassies left along with about 4 million educated, middle class people around that time. He said that until then Afghanistan was relaxed regarding religon, but then after the Russians left and the Taliban and Al-Queda types took over and with no middle class, the country suddenly changed into a hell hole. Now the British and Americans are back and have promised the locals that they will never desert them again. I think he is alot happier for his countrymen now that order is being restored there.

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                • #9
                  I dont think im going to see this movie. For one thing im a christian, and I have been all my life. I dont now how well here everyone knows their bible trivia, but nowhere in the bible does it describe a romantic relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdeline. And it seems like EVERY movie thats been made by hollywood about Jesus has that. I dont know for a fact that this movie has that, but im sure there will be some Blatantly speculative plot-thread in here somewhere. It just bothers me that stuff is added and taken away for entertainment reasons. The bible wasnt meant to be a giant book of film properties ya know? I mean dont get me wrong, the Ten Commandments with Heston is a classic, but they TOTALLY butchered that story as well. I think theres like 1 chapter of Exodus that talks about Moses being an egyptian prince. The rest of the movie is Taken from a completely different persons story. Joseph, who was in Genesis. Crazy stuff man. I guess what my point is, is that whatever your religion, why do we need to make MOVIES about it? It is VERY much Propaghanda.

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                  • #10
                    I have heard of this work of Seneca's. But can't remember it. I'll have to dig out my Seneca books. Don't know if it is in there, but I read some of it on the web.

                    Seneca was pretty straightforward, but you always have to take the writing from that age with a grain of salt. Men like Seneca wrote "histories" of a sort, but then again, who was his audience and where did he get his information? (he was alive at the time though). Many of these oratories were spoken as entertainment or to present a point of view (his Stoic philosophy for example). As I understand his "Passion", it was written as a play (correct?) and could have some elements of entertainment in it - but who knows if he even wrote it. Jesus' death follows many of the concepts of the Stoic philosophy of Seneca. Many could argue that this work just served to reinforce the ideals of Stoicism.

                    Originally posted by Seneca
                    How can that man resign himself to God, or bear his lot, whatever it be, without murmuring, and cheerfully submit to Providence, that shrinks at every motion of pleasure or pain? It is virtue alone that raises us above griefs, hopes, fears, and chances; and makes us not only patient, but willing, as knowing, that whatever we suffer is according to the decree of Heaven.
                    History is written by the victors as they say. "Passion" could have been written after Seneca's death by his friends who shared similar views (Seneca commited suicide at the command of Nero). Who knows what this Jesus fellow did. I believe he existed, I don't think a fictional character could have been remembered the way he is (I could be wrong though and there are many who don't believe he existed at all). But of course, if it serves some group's purpose to interpret this "Passion" to fit their ideals, they will do so. And I do agree with Michael that Mel Gibson's dad is a crackpot (Mel too) :?

                    Oh well, people a thousand years from now could be preaching about Count Renark of the Rim!

                    "Lord Renark who gave of himself to save humanity!" :lol:
                    When they had advanced together to meet on common
                    ground, then there was the clash of shields, of spears
                    and the fury of men cased in bronze; bossed shields met
                    each other and the din rose loud. Then there were
                    mingled the groaning and the crowing of men killed and
                    killing, and the ground ran with blood.

                    Homer, The Illiad

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                    • #11
                      It was some time i read through the whole thing. But i got the impression that it was kind of a like "What came first? The chicken or the egg".
                      Or what influenced later christian disciples when they wrote down the passion if not Seneca's lost play.

                      Though i deem this theory highly speculative.

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