Star Wars Universe discussion thread

[EverKing]

I thought it was going to lead somewhere interesting in the next installment.

Interestingly, a few weeks back I was given a copy of Colin Trevorrow's first draft of what was going to be Episode IX (tentatively titled "The Duel of the Fates"). In that, he built off of The Last Jedi rather well in such a way as the make the breaks with tradition in the latter blend into the overall story which giving what, in my opinion, would have been a more fulfilling conclusion to the overall "Skywalker Saga" and the individual character arcs of the sequel trilogy. If you have not yet found a copy of it and are interested, let me know and I'll see if I can get it over to you.

On the other hand, I thought Canto Bight was an attempt at character development for Poe as he learned to be more of a team player. Unfortunately, though I'm pretty certain that was the intention, the rest of the narrative failed to support it, and in many ways undermined it.

I never saw Canto Bight as a positive arc for Poe. In fact, it works very much the opposite--instead of working with the team in the form of Adm. Holdo, etc. he completely undermines the authority and unity of the Resistance by taking charge of an unauthorized and reckless mission. I always got the impression that Canto Bight was written into the story just to give Finn something to do in the movie and maybe to give him a little perspective on what the Resistance is really about rather than just running along just for self-preservation. Still, it was a jarring sequence in many ways that doesn't carry much weight or purpose in the scheme of the Saga we were given. That said, it does have better payoff in Trevorrow's original script in that he brings the ideas of the War Profiteers more completely into the themes of the story.

What I did think was pointless was Admiral Holdo's Kamikaze Maneuver. They've got faster than light travel and sentient droids, but they can't remotely pilot a ship or find some broken down droid at the tail end of its life-cycle to do the deed? Worse, I think the implications of hyperdrive ramming are dire. I suppose that's why they acted like it never happened in Rise of Skywalker.

I am sure the SW theorists, comics, and books explain this away in some way. Droids have programming preventing it, etc. Still, I don't disagree with you from an in-universe consistency perspective. From a visual perspective though, it was an incredible moment. Even from a story telling perspective it built on the themes of sacrifice for the greater good found in of Rogue One (which was the SW film released most recently prior to The Last Jedi) and in the opening battle of The Last Jedi itself (the bomber squadrons, especially Rose's sister)--it built an acceptance in the audience's minds that such sacrifices are now acceptable in the SW universe and that was an important idea to place in order to build the anticipation of Finn's sacrifice later in the film which was promptly subverted by Rose "saving" him. Call it cheap, if you will (and I won't disagree), but it was effective build up for that single moment.

So the latest trilogy was essentially like getting three more Return of the Jedis? That ain't so bad. Like, history has already shown it could have been worse.

Return of the Jedi at least knew where it was going in the end. The Disney Trilogy did not. If they had only taken an extra year or two to provide even a rough outline of the entire story, beginning to end, for the writers and directors to build around I think it could have been much better.

[Heresiologist]

Interestingly, a few weeks back I was given a copy of Colin Trevorrow's first draft of what was going to be Episode IX (tentatively titled "The Duel of the Fates"). In that, he built off of The Last Jedi rather well in such a way as the make the breaks with tradition in the latter blend into the overall story which giving what, in my opinion, would have been a more fulfilling conclusion to the overall "Skywalker Saga" and the individual character arcs of the sequel trilogy. If you have not yet found a copy of it and are interested, let me know and I'll see if I can get it over to you.

A veritable two-legged Star Wars Encyclopedia at the local gamestore told me "the original" script ended with a scene decades in the future with C3P0 telling the children of the future a tale that begins: "A long time ago in a galaxy far away..." Is that the Treverrow manuscript?

I never saw Canto Bight as a positive arc for Poe. In fact, it works very much the opposite--instead of working with the team in the form of Adm. Holdo, etc. he completely undermines the authority and unity of the Resistance by taking charge of an unauthorized and reckless mission.

Yeah, agreed. But I thought the "negative arc" was kind of the point. Poe's mistakes open his eyes to the fact he's a loose cannon. Plus there's an echo of things going wrong somewhat like they did in Empire Strikes back.

I am sure the SW theorists, comics, and books explain this away in some way. Droids have programming preventing it, etc. Still, I don't disagree with you from an in-universe consistency perspective. From a visual perspective though, it was an incredible moment.

Totally with you here as well.

But there's a but. Basically, because whenever they show me two or more Star Destroyers in close formation I think "that looks cool but even 20th century navies (even tank formations) knew to disperse their forces, especially in combat situations."

It's another case of choosing visual impact over other considerations. Which is fine, but it's still a dumb behaviour which is entirely due to cinematic concerns and has no justification in the narrative. Now, if it only went as far as that, it'd not even be worth a shrug. But Both Rogue One and The Last Jedi have shown the Rebels taking advantage of this stupid behaviour and, for myself, that boots me right out of the story I'm supposed to be watching.

Admittedly, this is my idiosyncratic take.

Hyperdrive Kamikazes, though. If one X-Wing or Tie Fighter can ram and take out, or seriously damage, a big enemy ship, I think it introduces a lot of problems for the Star Wars universe. It also boggles the mind that it's never come up before.

Return of the Jedi at least knew where it was going in the end. The Disney Trilogy did not. If they had only taken an extra year or two to provide even a rough outline of the entire story, beginning to end, for the writers and directors to build around I think it could have been much better.

True that. But it's also where Lucas chose to let merchandising concerns drive some his film decisions. Where Boba Fett, after a couple years of hype, went out with a goofy whimper not a bang. Where the Stormtroopers were defeated by a bunch of stone age teddy bears. And I'm sure there are other nits to pick.

Really, much as it will always hold a special place for me, I think every episode since Star Wars (AKA episode IV) has shown signs of cash grabbiness and poor narrative connection.

[EverKing]

(don't feel like quoting, so forgive me)

RE: Script -- No, the original Trevorrow script does not contain such a scene with C-3PO that I recall. [EDIT: I had tried sending it over to you, but it didn't like the PDF. I'll see if I can get it to you.]

And, yes, I wasn't disagreeing with vis a vis the hyperdrive kamikaze maneuver. It really does open a whole can of worms for the entire Star Wars universe. Here's someone who put a little math behind it all which addresses some of the problems and implications. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1M95njhovw

I also agree that Star Wars (IV: A New Hope) is still the best of the bunch, even if Empire Strikes Back may have some better writing and characterizations. As a space-myth, though, nothing has quite reached the emotional impact of the original.

[Heresiologist]

...the hyperdrive kamikaze maneuver. It really does open a whole can of worms for the entire Star Wars universe. Here's someone who put a little math behind it all which addresses some of the problems and implications. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1M95njhovw

That was great! Nice to see somebody overthinking it even more than me, but WITH SCIENCE (rather than history). You get an honourary Conjunction of the Million Likes award which, due to Internet Relativism, is compressed into the shape of 1 Like.

[EverKing]

That was great! Nice to see somebody overthinking it even more than me, but WITH SCIENCE (rather than history).

If that is your forte I highly recommend that channel, "Because Science." Although the presenter, Kyle Hill, has recently left and started his own independent and eponymous channel which still hasn't quite found its full rhythm. Of course, he's only two videos in so we can give it some time yet. In any event, Because Science is great because they take all manner of nerdy pop-culture events and technologies and attempts to apply real science to them ( What would happen if you were hit by a real lightsaber? Hint: it is far, far worse than you'd think).

You get an honourary Conjunction of the Million Likes award which, due to Internet Relativism, is compressed into the shape of 1 Like.

I'll take it even with the compression!

[Heresiologist]

If that is your forte I highly recommend that channel, "Because Science." Although the presenter, Kyle Hill, has recently left and started his own independent and eponymous channel...

I've already mentally bookmarked that channel and intend to tell my daughter she can watch two or three episodes a day without it counting against her screen-time limit.

I also agree that Star Wars (IV: A New Hope) is still the best of the bunch, even if Empire Strikes Back may have some better writing and characterizations. As a space-myth, though, nothing has quite reached the emotional impact of the original.

Regarding this I should also mention my kiddo's reaction to Star Wars (IV: A New Hope). She was rather disappointed with it because she thought Princess Leia didn't do much and, worse, stupidly fired the blaster in the trash compactor room. Among other things, she thought Leia should have hopped in an X-Wing and helped attack the Death Star.

Also, I don't think Star Wars is all that special for her. She likes it well enough, but I think it's (more or less) just another fantastical show among the many others she's already seen. And I think that's a key difference between the Star Wars of yesterday and today. When it first came out it was unusual, now it's just not and the field is very crowded.

Actually, though it's my least favourite, I think Return of the Jedi is probably her favourite original trilogy installment. Mostly because ewoks, but I think she liked Leia choking out Jabba the Hutt (though I seem to remember she wasn't happy with the bikini).