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Kelly's Heroes

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  • lemec
    replied
    My appy-polo-logies for getting off the Kelly's Heroes subject, but I wanted to add that I recently saw the 1975 movie Two Minute Warning because I am a Charlton Heston fan and as a bonus to me, I saw that
    John Cassavetes (Franko fron TDD) was in it. :D

    Leave a comment:


  • lemec
    replied
    Hello Dee,

    That is very interesting about the alternative versions of movies. Thanks for the great quotes and links.

    It makes me wonder about alot of other movies when I remember it one way on tv,another way on vhs cassette and yet another way on dvd.

    I knew I wasn't crazy! I saw different versions. :D


    Even as late as Star Wars:Episode 2-Attack of the Clones, Anakin has a huge robotic arm at the end of the theater version, it was very bulky. On dvd, Anakin's replacement arm was covered by his robe and only his metal hand was shown and it was more like Luke's hand in Ep IV and Ep V.

    Another Example, I saw on tv that Thunderball (I know I am Connery happy today) had that scene where Bond escapes the shark he say two different things. I think it is on the dvd bonus features too. He says something like "bon appetite" on the tv version then on cassette he says "Sorry old chap,better luck next time."

    That remark where it seems the Kelly's Heroes crew is caught might prove that some folks out there might want it portrayed that anything even slightly illegal has to be punished.

    In addition, was it really wise for Moriarty to drive that Tiger Tank out of there wearing the German uniform? ;) I just don't want the guy shot at by friendly fire. Not to be obsessed with the subject, where would they take all that gold anyway? Switzerland? Maybe they had a private ship waiting for them off the coast of France?

    Another movie with a possible extra scene was To Hell and Back. I heard that there was a scene in it where a tank crushes a jeep, but when I watched it, I could never find the scene.

    Now I see movies where instead of a huge edit, the directors will have the actors do the scene normally with the bad words, then they have them do it again with "acceptable" words. :)

    It is all interesting.


    -Lemec

    P.S. (edit) It was not "bon appetite" it was "now you can tell of the one who got away" when Bond was talking to a shark.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeeCrowSeer
    replied
    Originally posted by lemec
    Sutherland pretending to be a general in The Dirty Dozen is fantastic, don't you agree Dee? :)
    Oh yeah, that was worth watching the film for. "Where are you from, son?"

    Originally posted by demos99
    My biggest fault with the film is that fundementally most of the Dozen survive the mission right up until the final 5 mins when the writer/director suddenly decides to kill most of them off, almost arbitarily.
    That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that... considering how much time they spent on the practice exercises, it does feel as if they rather rushed the raid itself... and then, as you say, realised that they had too many characters still standing. I wasn't a big fan of the "Oh, he got killed in a tree over there, let's go shall we?" scene. Not the most dramatic way to remove a character.

    Originally posted by demos99
    Back to The Dirty Dozen, it's strange that a film which was notorious for being so overtly amoral and anti-authority should suddenly get a moral conscience right at the end.
    Curiously, according to the "alternative versions" section at IMDB.com:

    In the Spanish dubbed version [of Kelly's Heroes] made during General's Franco regime, a voice cue was inserted at the end of the film, when the heroes are on the truck and before "Burning Bridges" starts: the voice said "Where do you go soldier?", to suggest that they had been caught before they could escape.
    :)

    http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0065938/alternateversions

    Also, for The Dirty Dozen:

    In Germany, in the German-language dubbed version, audiences saw only Jim Brown throwing hand grenades into the airshafts at the chateau. The scenes showing grenades being dumped into, and gasoline being poured into, the airshafts were cut.
    http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0061578/alternateversions

    Originally posted by lemec
    Anyway,part B of Kelly's Heroes, I don't think I mentioned it before but, did you notice how close the movie Three Kings came to the Kelly's Heroes plot?
    I was thinking that while I was watching, having seen Three Kings first. I think both movies are pretty good... Kelly's has the edge in terms of music though!

    Leave a comment:


  • lemec
    replied
    That's a brain teaser. Makes me wonder how many times a censor of some kind came around to inspect films that were almost finished and cut here and there or even demanded new endings to be filmed.

    There are several movies where I get attatched to a character and they died by some stupid factor in the movie and for no real reason than to kill them off. Alot of times,bank robberies as an example, I want the guys to pull off the caper after they planed it the entire movie.

    Take Heat for instance, I really wanted De Niro to win that one. He was smarter than Al Pacino's character, but he made the mistake of going after Wanegrow to kill him, he could have left and been in another country. They were armed to the teeth at the bank too, I think the cops would not have had a chance on that one when Val suddenly opened fire on them. I guess the movie would have been much shorter though,haha. Michael Mann always kills the bad guys so I was not really surprised. Maybe it is just that De Niro was much cooler in that particular film than Pacino was. :) My question in that movie is, did Val Kilmer get away free? They never follow up to see if the police catch him later or show that he got away to spend his share of the money.

    Another comment ,going back to Kelly's Heroes, is that it was perfect, everthing that was set up was in use. I like to call that, "the Pay-off" or "The Big Pay-off." hehe It occurs when the characters achieve their goal, like getting the goal. Another "pay-off" for me would be hey this movie is showing a Sherman Tank, I want to see the thing in action and sure enough, I get my "pay-off" it was used in battle and in comedy. :D

    Some movies put litle things in,like objects,weapons,artifacts and various things and they totaly forget about them, or they will talk about a location and never get there, it is so dissapointing when it turns out mundane. I mean I like twists and surprises,but if you are going to point out certain things in the movie, I want to see what the characters are going to use them for,haha.

    Anyway,part B of Kelly's Heroes, I don't think I mentioned it before but, did you notice how close the movie Three Kings came to the Kelly's Heroes plot? Now there is that new movie coming out with Jessica Alba where they find gold bars on a ship,make you wonder if it was somehow influenced by a certain movie.

    -Lemec

    P.S. At least in Heist, Gene Hackmen got away. I did not see the original, I think it was a re-make.

    Leave a comment:


  • David Mosley
    replied
    That's an interesting theory about the audiences expectations re. the survival of the cons. Another of my bete noirs is the film The League of Gentlemen (the Jack Hawkins version not the recent 'Apocalypse' film) where the crime goes completely perfectly right up until the final 5 mins (again) when some little boy completely out of the blue goes 'look the nasty men are robbing the iddle-widdle bank' and they all get caught. The ending is so obviously kow-towing to the opinion that Crime mustn't be seen to pay that it quite ruins what is otherwise a good film for me.

    Back to The Dirty Dozen, it's strange that a film which was notorious for being so overtly amoral and anti-authority should suddenly get a moral conscience right at the end. :(

    Leave a comment:


  • lemec
    replied
    That is so true. I sometimes think that they killed the rest off just so they only had to film Bronson and Lee Marvin in a small hospital room scene.

    Either that, or they wanted the audience to feel that the other crimminals
    still got their punishment in the end for what they have done? Not that all of them had crimes that were all that bad.

    I do enjoy a movie where they have a little model to plan their raid with. :D

    Leave a comment:


  • David Mosley
    replied
    My biggest fault with the film is that fundementally most of the Dozen survive the mission right up until the final 5 mins when the writer/director suddenly decides to kill most of them off, almost arbitarily. I mean, Franko should definitely have survived imo. :x

    Watching it again the other night I was struck by how poorly edited the end of the film seems to be. When Jefferson gets killed (waddya mean, I need to leave spoiler space?! :)) the reaction shots are so drawn-out that any tension is rapidly dissipated. It's like, 'Oh no! The nasty German has killed the iddle-widdle token black man!' 8O

    And what's going on with Pinkley's death scene? :roll:

    Anyway, best line in the film has to be:
    "And where's Donald Duck?"
    "Donald Duck is at the crossroads with a machine-gun."
    :D

    Leave a comment:


  • David Mosley
    replied
    Originally posted by lemec
    I can't figure out why they brought Maggot with them either.
    You have 12 men:

    Wladislaw, Jefferson, Franko, Jiminez, Maggott, Pinkley, Posey, Vladek, Gilpin, Lever, Sawyer, Bravos.

    Can *you* work out from their names alone which one is going to be the psychopathic maniac?

    I mean, you'd have thought they'd seen that one coming, wouldn't ya?

    Leave a comment:


  • lemec
    replied
    Sutherland pretending to be a general in The Dirty Dozen is fantastic, don't you agree Dee? :)



    I can't figure out why they brought Maggot with them either.


    -Lemec

    Leave a comment:


  • DeeCrowSeer
    replied
    Originally posted by demos99
    The Dirty Dozen had quite a reputation at one point for being very amoral and violent, although it probably seems rather tame these days.
    Well, they'd mentioned the grenades scene on the clip show I saw, so I knew about that in advance. Still, it seems like a pretty shitty thing to do. It's also weird how Maggot gets honoured at the end, despite the fact he contributed absolutely nothing to the mission, and in fact endangered everyone on it, both indirectly and by shooting at them. :( There were a few good jokes along the way, but it was a bit too cold and brutal for my tastes. I much prefer Kelly's Heroes. But, as I say, I'm no connoisseur of war films.

    Leave a comment:


  • David Mosley
    replied
    Originally posted by DeeCrowSeer
    The Dirty Dozen is on UK TV this week. I can't recall ever watching it before, but Sutherland is in it, so why not?

    I think it's either tonight, or tomorrow night... :clap:
    So Dee, did you watch it? What did you think of it?

    The Dirty Dozen had quite a reputation at one point for being very amoral and violent, although it probably seems rather tame these days.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeeCrowSeer
    replied
    The Dirty Dozen is on UK TV this week. I can't recall ever watching it before, but Sutherland is in it, so why not?

    I think it's either tonight, or tomorrow night... :clap:

    Edit: Hah! Having read the trivia points on IMDb I now realise that it was this film I thought I was going to see when I sat down to watch Kelly's Heroes. All the way through I was expecting them to go in to a chateau, but it never happened, so I assumed that was the part I'd missed getting to the film late. But I had my anachronistic-hippie characters all mixed up. That's what you get when your entire knowledge of cinema comes from clip shows! :(

    Leave a comment:


  • Talisant
    replied
    Originally posted by DeeCrowSeer
    Just checked Johnny out on IMDb, and as one viewer comment confirms, it's the film that was sampled in a Metallica video and really creeped me out. Eek! 8O
    I'll never forget the film, the first week it was out some "friends" got me into a heightened awarness state and took me to see the new "comedy", brain melt ensued, missed the Metallica video, praise Sutherland!

    Leave a comment:


  • Pietro_Mercurios
    replied
    I saw Kelly's Heroes in Tiberius, on the banks of the Galilea, back in the very early Eighties. The audience was mostly young Palestinians and they were all booing the film (probably not violent enough), until they eventually twigged that it was a comedy.

    :lol:

    Leave a comment:


  • DeeCrowSeer
    replied
    Originally posted by Talisant
    '70 Sutherland driving a tank in Kelly's Heroes - WWII
    '71 He's Jesus driving a train in Johnny Got His Gun - WWI wild times
    And M.A.S.H., of course, which he was great in!

    Just checked Johnny out on IMDb, and as one viewer comment confirms, it's the film that was sampled in a Metallica video and really creeped me out. Eek! 8O

    Leave a comment:

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