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HP Lovecraft and His Work

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  • Octo Seven
    replied
    Originally posted by Michelangelo Moorcockos View Post
    Thanks Octo,

    Had not come across this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gods_of_Peg%C4%81na

    Featuring another Pantheon of Gods, including a God that only Gods can worship!
    You'll notice how Lovecraft heavily borrowed (well kinda stole) from it too, Skarl The Drummer is reminiscent of the demonic drummer and piper who lull Azathoth to sleep, Skarl also does it to keep Mana-Yood-Sushai sleeping lest he wake and destroy the universe.

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  • SeeDoubleYou
    replied
    Though reticent, I recall a dream (that has congealed into what I can see it as now) of being "captured", in whatever way we find ourselves energetically brought to, whether we or the person like it or not, and brought into a memory of young HPL as a toddler, or maybe older.
    In which he wants to, or is invited in, or however it comes about, comes about his mother going to the bathroom (or some female of note in young life) and being interested in her plumbing, and perchance doing a little childlike exploration. I maybe recall that his father learned of this or this kind of behavior or was used to this kind of behavior, but, however (as I see the dream now as an amalgam of early experiences in the manner of these sort of dream-memories) I remember him/I passing outside staring at the stars (or day as this is amalgamated) and him "bouncing" his energy up and up into the stars and maybe using, cleverly, the astrological nodes of the moon and his imagination pertaining to aliens in a Gurdjieffian way, way, way out into space and beyond.
    And, I think, what he meet there was all the unresolved demons and inner-ghost programs that were waiting in the architecture. I recall that early life of him as idyllic, despite all the stress, I feel he felt it was all quite normal, yet, maybe from another time's perspective or from a more rational psychological perspective that didn't gel with his social-era and social identity.
    But, I do feel, there was a moment he nervously brokedown and was horrified by things that aren't all that abnormal; things that horrify us all if we are put to the stress-test that is meant to break.
    In his transcendent imagination he could touch upon what was normal outside of his era but was faced with the illusion of the superiority of his own era, i.e. all the nostalgia of the era of his that never was in the eras he took comfort from. He was placed in an impossible position due to his cleverness to avoid and cope with, in his and our notion of his era's, somethings painful and somethings that didn't fit in with his social sense of normality yet did with his psychological-intuition of normality.
    I think everyone beats him up because his writing is a portal through which he asks for help to cope with this stuff and to vent the disparity and disillusion he felt for the era along with the paradoxical fondness he felt and felt reinforced through his sojourns by people's nostalgia for his era whether from his relative past or future.
    Or, maybe it was the principle of they're scared of you more than you are of them and when he questioned the They as to the why it was because of their awareness that, as an impetus, his inner demons were what drove him to such heights. So, the They became as monstrous as his unintegrated-trauma, reflecting all the fear and pain he could so cleverly outrun and so horrifyingly reject and grotesquely, eldritchly deny.
    So we need to feel compassion for the guy, but not pity him, as it is with anyone who hurts or has been hurt (you can end up enabling them and/or they can end up harming you); cause, he might be dead, but when is now?

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  • SeeDoubleYou
    replied
    ...do it, do it, do it!

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  • Heresiologist
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael Moorcock View Post
    Now I'm horrified.
    I think you must write your way out of these fantods you're experiencing. I suspect the way forward involves a handful of Lord Jagged's wonderful disguises, another of his secret and knowing smiles, and dream projections to a strange, grin challenged, chap from Providence, RI.

    Multiverse swallows Mythos.
    Last edited by Heresiologist; 05-26-2015, 09:54 PM.

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  • Michelangelo Moorcockos
    replied
    Thanks Octo,

    Had not come across this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gods_of_Peg%C4%81na

    Featuring another Pantheon of Gods, including a God that only Gods can worship!

    Leave a comment:


  • Octo Seven
    replied
    Funny, I found the Silmarillion better than LoTR, I like creation myths and some of the epic little tales weaved into it were quite enjoyable, especially the one with the actual Silmarillion and the hound, the elf couple, inflitrating Melkor's palace etc. It ain't no Gods of Pegna though, which heavily influenced it. Haven't read either in many years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Miqque
    replied
    Most of Tolkien's work was never intended for publication. There's some great seed work in there, particularly tales of Gondolin, but the density of the prose is very off-putting. Now, being an oddball, I like Russian literature. Even if I can't spell author or character names right! Solzhinitzen and Dostoyevski are favorites (The Gulag archipelago was particularly intense.) These are also very long tales with complicated names and odd locations and a labyrinthine plot.

    Like Philip K. Dick, these are tales just right for taking the general plot and what details desired and turning them into a screenplay. Maybe now with someone other than Guillermo del Toro (whose The Stain should have gotten more recognition) or Peter Jackson (who burnt out completely about halfway through An Unexpected Journey and thank God for Andy Serkis, who was a trooper as well as Second Unit Director).

    More "collected notes" than "novels", methinks.

    Leave a comment:


  • krakenten
    replied
    Ancient Astronut theorists say that "The Silmarillion'' blows goats.

    For once they may be right.

    I can see Tolkien needing a a handy compendium of backstory to keep LOTR orderly and serve as a source for past events to be mentioned at need. He was also anal-retentive enough to want to record his vision of Middle-Earth.

    Four volumes, one epic saga-not to shabby. Yes, sappy and sentimental in spots, but still....

    Leave a comment:


  • zlogdan
    replied
    Originally posted by krakenten View Post
    (and "The Silmarillion'' is tedious! I think Tolkein wrote it to help himself keep the sprawling story straight, perhaps not even for publication. I doubt it would have ever seen print were it not for the success of LOTR, a fun read it is not!)
    In the 1990s I used to have this crazy dream that one day Silmarillion would be published in Portuguese - I am a big fan of the LoTR books - until when it finally was and I bought it back in January 2000 and since then I haven't gotten through page 50 or 60. I speculate that Tolkien's son had more to do with the released work because never in life Tolkien had thought about making it a book. I envy the fans that got to read it though.

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  • SeeDoubleYou
    replied
    Yes, the Groucho Marx approach.

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  • Michael Moorcock
    replied
    Now I'm horrified.

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  • Jagged
    replied
    Originally posted by DeepFixer View Post
    You're not a failed fan, Mike. You're just selective.
    I move that we (s)elect Mike Fan of Honour. Anybody against?

    Leave a comment:


  • krakenten
    replied
    Let me second that!

    As a critic of fiction, MM stands well above the others, he cuts to the heart of the matter quickly, with flawless logic-fantasy and SF is essentially illogical, so much attention must be paid to the internal logic of the story. That's not easy.

    I remember when Elric encountered the earth god Grome-Grome is somewhat slow witted, yet you can see he means well. There is a certain logic to the encounter, but rather a sad outcome. Quite logical.

    Our good host's formidable knowledge of the literature often shines through.

    (and "The Silmarillion'' is tedious! I think Tolkein wrote it to help himself keep the sprawling story straight, perhaps not even for publication. I doubt it would have ever seen print were it not for the success of LOTR, a fun read it is not!)

    Remember Sturgeon's Law-90% of everything is crap. That applies to HPL, too. I suspect that Mr. Moorcock has indeed read some of HPL's output, and simply didn't like it.

    He's entitled.
    Last edited by krakenten; 05-25-2015, 03:55 AM. Reason: afterthought

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  • DeepFixer
    replied
    Dunno, I have trouble with HPL, too. I like a few of his stories, but most of it, I think, is tedious.

    I like The Hobbit and LotR; The Sillmarillion was tedious as well. I have no urge to read any more of the Prof's work, though.

    You're not a failed fan, Mike. You're just selective.

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  • krakenten
    replied
    One might also mention the many lunatic fringe beliefs the Nazi's held so dear-the Hollow Earth, the Vril, Eternal Ice and the deadly madness of the racial theories.

    The 19th Century crackpots left behind a lot of false information-none of it ever dies, it just hides for a while.

    There are a few truly baffling cases in history, but just a few, they keep being trotted out, even after being explained. People add to them-often late at night in bars, and after a while they become so layered with false memories and lies that they are unrecognizable.

    These are descended from the campfire legends of old, fantastic tales told to pass the time. Fun, if you don't take them so seriously.

    Trouble is, some places, supermarket tabloid "facts'' are taken for truth, enthusiasms get engaged and there is mischief done. Some places in Africa, people still kill 'witches' with some regularity.

    And meanwhile, Hanford and Fukishima still glow blue, sins that will haunt us for a long time.

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