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HP Lovecraft and His Work

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  • Originally posted by DeepFixer View Post
    You're not a failed fan, Mike. You're just selective.
    I move that we (s)elect Mike Fan of Honour. Anybody against?
    "If the environment were a bank, we would already have saved it." -Graffitti.

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    • Yes, the Groucho Marx approach.
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      • Originally posted by krakenten View Post
        (and "The Silmarillion'' is tedious! I think Tolkein wrote it to help himself keep the sprawling story straight, perhaps not even for publication. I doubt it would have ever seen print were it not for the success of LOTR, a fun read it is not!)
        In the 1990s I used to have this crazy dream that one day Silmarillion would be published in Portuguese - I am a big fan of the LoTR books - until when it finally was and I bought it back in January 2000 and since then I haven't gotten through page 50 or 60. I speculate that Tolkien's son had more to do with the released work because never in life Tolkien had thought about making it a book. I envy the fans that got to read it though.
        "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
        "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

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        • Ancient Astronut theorists say that "The Silmarillion'' blows goats.

          For once they may be right.

          I can see Tolkien needing a a handy compendium of backstory to keep LOTR orderly and serve as a source for past events to be mentioned at need. He was also anal-retentive enough to want to record his vision of Middle-Earth.

          Four volumes, one epic saga-not to shabby. Yes, sappy and sentimental in spots, but still....

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          • Most of Tolkien's work was never intended for publication. There's some great seed work in there, particularly tales of Gondolin, but the density of the prose is very off-putting. Now, being an oddball, I like Russian literature. Even if I can't spell author or character names right! Solzhinitzen and Dostoyevski are favorites (The Gulag archipelago was particularly intense.) These are also very long tales with complicated names and odd locations and a labyrinthine plot.

            Like Philip K. Dick, these are tales just right for taking the general plot and what details desired and turning them into a screenplay. Maybe now with someone other than Guillermo del Toro (whose The Stain should have gotten more recognition) or Peter Jackson (who burnt out completely about halfway through An Unexpected Journey and thank God for Andy Serkis, who was a trooper as well as Second Unit Director).

            More "collected notes" than "novels", methinks.
            Miqque
            ... just another sailor on the seas of Fate, dogpaddling desperately ...

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            • Funny, I found the Silmarillion better than LoTR, I like creation myths and some of the epic little tales weaved into it were quite enjoyable, especially the one with the actual Silmarillion and the hound, the elf couple, inflitrating Melkor's palace etc. It ain't no Gods of Pegna though, which heavily influenced it. Haven't read either in many years.

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              • Thanks Octo,

                Had not come across this:

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gods_of_Peg%C4%81na

                Featuring another Pantheon of Gods, including a God that only Gods can worship!
                If I don't see you, I hope you have a good afternoon, a good evening, and a good night!
                ITCFEP - Infinite Tolerance, Complete Forgiveness, Eternal Peace.

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                • Originally posted by Michael Moorcock View Post
                  Now I'm horrified.
                  I think you must write your way out of these fantods you're experiencing. I suspect the way forward involves a handful of Lord Jagged's wonderful disguises, another of his secret and knowing smiles, and dream projections to a strange, grin challenged, chap from Providence, RI.

                  Multiverse swallows Mythos.
                  Last edited by Heresiologist; 05-26-2015, 09:54 PM.

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                  • ...do it, do it, do it!
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                    • Though reticent, I recall a dream (that has congealed into what I can see it as now) of being "captured", in whatever way we find ourselves energetically brought to, whether we or the person like it or not, and brought into a memory of young HPL as a toddler, or maybe older.
                      In which he wants to, or is invited in, or however it comes about, comes about his mother going to the bathroom (or some female of note in young life) and being interested in her plumbing, and perchance doing a little childlike exploration. I maybe recall that his father learned of this or this kind of behavior or was used to this kind of behavior, but, however (as I see the dream now as an amalgam of early experiences in the manner of these sort of dream-memories) I remember him/I passing outside staring at the stars (or day as this is amalgamated) and him "bouncing" his energy up and up into the stars and maybe using, cleverly, the astrological nodes of the moon and his imagination pertaining to aliens in a Gurdjieffian way, way, way out into space and beyond.
                      And, I think, what he meet there was all the unresolved demons and inner-ghost programs that were waiting in the architecture. I recall that early life of him as idyllic, despite all the stress, I feel he felt it was all quite normal, yet, maybe from another time's perspective or from a more rational psychological perspective that didn't gel with his social-era and social identity.
                      But, I do feel, there was a moment he nervously brokedown and was horrified by things that aren't all that abnormal; things that horrify us all if we are put to the stress-test that is meant to break.
                      In his transcendent imagination he could touch upon what was normal outside of his era but was faced with the illusion of the superiority of his own era, i.e. all the nostalgia of the era of his that never was in the eras he took comfort from. He was placed in an impossible position due to his cleverness to avoid and cope with, in his and our notion of his era's, somethings painful and somethings that didn't fit in with his social sense of normality yet did with his psychological-intuition of normality.
                      I think everyone beats him up because his writing is a portal through which he asks for help to cope with this stuff and to vent the disparity and disillusion he felt for the era along with the paradoxical fondness he felt and felt reinforced through his sojourns by people's nostalgia for his era whether from his relative past or future.
                      Or, maybe it was the principle of they're scared of you more than you are of them and when he questioned the They as to the why it was because of their awareness that, as an impetus, his inner demons were what drove him to such heights. So, the They became as monstrous as his unintegrated-trauma, reflecting all the fear and pain he could so cleverly outrun and so horrifyingly reject and grotesquely, eldritchly deny.
                      So we need to feel compassion for the guy, but not pity him, as it is with anyone who hurts or has been hurt (you can end up enabling them and/or they can end up harming you); cause, he might be dead, but when is now?
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                      • Originally posted by Michelangelo Moorcockos View Post
                        Thanks Octo,

                        Had not come across this:

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gods_of_Peg%C4%81na

                        Featuring another Pantheon of Gods, including a God that only Gods can worship!
                        You'll notice how Lovecraft heavily borrowed (well kinda stole) from it too, Skarl The Drummer is reminiscent of the demonic drummer and piper who lull Azathoth to sleep, Skarl also does it to keep Mana-Yood-Sushai sleeping lest he wake and destroy the universe.

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                        • That period must have been full of creativity-or else there was an audience starved for such ideas.

                          For me, the idea of a secret world full of dark and dangerous enigmas somehow satisfies. I'll put it down to being somewhat socially isolated as a child and growing up in a town full of secrets, with the supernatural often close at hand.

                          York county had the Hex murder of 1929, Toad Road(washed out by a hurricaine and never rebuilt, the Seven Gates of Hell and lots of Pennsylvania German(NOT Amish!) Hexarie and hoodoo. Not long ago, I overheard a very earnest conversation on Hex magic in a Hardee's in Dallastown. People take it seriously.

                          The essence of speculative fiction is the question, "What if?" I'm pretty sure that The Great Old Ones are pure moonshine(especially since Cthulhu & Co. were never mentioned before Lovecraft, though similar ideas and beings appear in other works).

                          And that's why I'm fond of HPL. Maybe you were a better adjusted child, and it holds no charm for you.

                          Not everything is for everybody-but what about Jerry Cornelius vs. Cthulhu? There are enough Lovecraftian Espionage books to constitute a minor genre.

                          It'll sell like crazy!(slip in some ancient astronuts, it can't fail!)

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                          • Still slowly assailing the short stories, but, to me, HPL's stuff is eldritch-romance; it's the machismo that makes it horror.
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                            • The eldrich is perhaps losing its impact.

                              Who has not felt a frisson upon examining some antique book, or a box of odds and ends from an estate sale? After all, this is from the lost and often totally forgotten past.

                              We seem to think that magic worked back then-the movies have dinned that into us for the last few decades. Indiana Jones encounters dark magic and the minions of the Ahenerbe seeking sorcery for the Nazis, the mummy of Imhotep bids fair to rule the world....that sort of thing. Quatermas and Dr. Who encounter Bad Things from Way Back When, the eccentric Agent Pendergast faces much ancient evil.

                              Just as the UFO has gained power with time and much unreliable information-Roswell is a fine example-we have come to accept this new mythology as fact.

                              There are any number of montebanks ready to cash in. I recently tried to read "The Secret Space Age'', a real howler full of the same old cases and the same old half-truths and outright lies. I couldn't finish it, same old-same old.

                              Now, imagine an 18 year old college freshman picking this up(I found it in the Johns Hopkins Barnes and Noble)

                              I'm beginning to see what may be truth, and I do not like it worth a damn.

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