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  • Benoist
    replied
    Originally posted by SardonicSquirrel
    did anyone try D20 version of Stormbringer? and do you like it better then the old chaosium version?
    I got Dragon Lords of Melniboné, the d20 version of Stormbringer. I find the treatment globally acceptable but for the magic section which could have been much more inventive and much better designed than just plugging in a few summoning spells to "ye olde" Vancian magic system to make it look like some work's been done on this section of the book.

    Honestly, it's not great. It sure is not abysmally bad, but it could have been much, much better and original, to be sure.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dan Vince
    replied
    Let me be the first to recommend Sorcerer and Sword.

    Leave a comment:


  • Krimson
    replied
    Holy Necroposts, Batman! Yes, the debate over which system to use for an EC game goes on until the End of TIme, or until MM resolve the chaosium issue, afterwhich I suspect the system will be based on whomever can pay for the licence.

    Right now Chaosium seems to be acting as if they own the product, to the extent that they have sublet MMs IP to Mongoose.

    Leave a comment:


  • Random Goblin
    replied
    Honestly, I think Savage Worlds would be a far better match for Elric than any variation of d20.

    Leave a comment:


  • EverKing
    replied
    Wow, I wasn't expecting this kind of response! I'm most impressed.

    Kommando, you mentioned the M + M damage system, that it uses "incorporated damage states." I have played several systems with similar systems, such as Shadowrun 3e and was unimpressed. It is perhaps a more accurate portrayal of the human body's reaction to physical trauma than any HP system currently out there; but I've found such systems to be clumsy during gameplay and I don't believe they would offer the rage of damages I intend to use. Also, I want to keep enough of the readily familiar in the system so that players who are familiar with d20 or the older D&D/AD&D editions can easily adapt. People who have played with HP's for a dozen or more years find them comforting. :D

    Also, I didn't actually seriously consider pursuing publication of my system until I was making my earlier post about it. I have read the OGL several times through on a handfull of occssions and even have a printed copy of it--along with the entire SRD, which I use for review...line by line and make notes on anything I'm not sure I like, or that I feel I need to change.

    I'm hesitant to get into too much detail here on the actual rules I'm implementing. Partially because they aren't fully fleshed out, partially because because this is a public forum...but mostly because it would be way too long of a post! *lol*

    If anyone would like some more information (Kommando, I know you expressed interest in what I'm doing with the magic system) on any of the particulars feel free to e-mail me: [email protected]

    Leave a comment:


  • Krimson
    replied
    Originally posted by EverKing
    I'm currently doing a revision of the d20 SRD. I was always a fan of the old AD&D 2nd. Edition with Player's Option rules and am incorporating some of the same ideas into my re-write of the d20 system. Well, it's more house rules, I guess (for legal purposes).
    Actually there are two licences. The OGL and the d20. Its been discovered that the d20 is not neccessary in order to create and release a compatible product. Green Ronin's game Mutants and Masterminds is the first example of this. Another example would be the Conan RPG by Mongoose. Both are published under the OGL, and do not bear the d20 imprint.

    The thing with the d20 licence is that it stipulates that you cannot include a character creation system, in order to ensure that one of the core books from WoC (beit D&D 3e, d20 Modern, Star Wars, or even d20 CoC which was published by WoC for Chaosium) had to be used for play. Initially this gave WoC a kind of monopoly on the d20 system, and they still do.

    The thing is, Green Ronin discovered that the d20 licence is not necessary to publish material under the OGL. You can publish what you like under the OGL, and even make use of Open Game Content (OGC). The OGL will clearly stipulate what content is OGC and usable, and what content is Product Identity and thus copyrighted. In DLoM, pages 71-79 are designated OGC and the rest of the book is product identity. Also with the OGL - you could have your own character creation rules.

    1) revision of class structure to allow more flexibility (I've lately been considering a classless structure as well, but those tend to be overly complex. What I may do, is build it as a predominately classless system with pre-made skill sets that can be purchased at character creation that will fill the same role as classes).

    2) New HP system. Basically with this, I was tired as a DM/GM...and even as a player...of seeing characters taking massive damage without flinching. The system I'm going to incorporate will not be a level progressive system, so the HP's will remain in the tolerable range. I've been number-cruching various possibilities, but haven't chosen a specific system yet.
    You might want to take a look at Mutants and Masterminds or the d20 Cthulhu game to get some ideas of how to put together a classless game. I've been trying to come up with a variant of this, using modules to piece together your own character ala GURPS. I need to study the Class Construction Engine (a d20 product) in order to figure this out better.

    Also, M+M works without hit points. Instead it incorporated damage states , which allows for adjusting the lethality of the game.

    3) Introducing Combat Skills to replace Weapon and Armour Feats and their ilk. After all, a character should be able to progress in a weapon skill just the same as any other skill. Feats will be reserved for special conditions/manoeuvres, etc.

    4) Changing the AC rules to reflect a more accurate portrayal of the role armour plays. Basically, with this one, a character will have a Dodge Class (DC, same as the Difficulty Class) that is the number needed to actually hit the character. If the PC is hit, then AC comes into play, as it absorbs damage. The background rules for it will be rather complex, but it shouldn't slow or complexify gameplay by any signifigant amout as the Charcter Sheets will have all the pre-calculated numbers readily available.
    Sounds like you like your old revised 2nd ed books, such as Skills&Powers, Combat & Tactics, Spells & Magic and so forth. They are a good resource, and I agree that having proficiency skills is a good inclusion. What you mention here on combat skills and AC rules is very much like the system used in the d20 (though it shouldn't be) game Silver Age Sentinels by Guardians of Order. In SAS, feats aren't even used and there are certain combat skills, but not nearly as detailed a system as found in Combat & Tactics. Also, SAS armour does act like Damage Reduction, which is probably what you are looking for. Also, its OGC, so you could lift it directly and put it into your game.

    5) Re-writting the magic system. I have a real problem with the way they combined Arcane and Divine Magic in d20. They are completely different powers and approaches. Further, If I decided to introduce Psionics, I'll go back to the 2nd Edition Skills & Powers version of Psionics (or something similar) so that psionics is not just another type of magic as it pretty much is in 3e.
    It would be interesting to see what you mean about magic. The system from Spells and Magic was pretty good, IMO. Also when Skills and Powers came out, their Psionic system became my bible. I used to love using psionics, it was so much more interesting than magic. Of course, I ended up expanding on that idea as well.

    There are many other little chages, but those are the biggies! If any of you are intested, let me know and I'll send you a copy of what I have as soon as I get it on computer (warning: it may be another six months before I'm that far).

    What I am thinking of doing is just making all the basic rules, then making a seperate sourcebook for whatever campaign setting I decide to use. Right now it's either looking like an alternate version of Krynn cir. 2700PC (long story why its so far in the future) or an original setting based on a world in which I've set a number of my short stories. So, What I can do eventually (if I decide to circulate beyond my own house and as long as I don't use any copyrighted material not included in the Open-Sourse SRD) is get the lic. for these custom rules and send them out to any interested. But, as I said, that may be along time coming. After I get the basics done and a couple copies printed out for personal use I'll want to play test them for a while...once that is done, it'll be ready for circulation. Hey, anyone interested in play testing when I get to that point?
    This would be interesting to check out. What I would recommend is to have some sort of setting, even a quick and dirty version, to go with your game. If you planned to market or publish it, then a small bit of Product Identity would make the system seem more appealing. Good luck to you on this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ian
    replied
    I'd be interested.

    If you want to bounce some ideas off me, fire away ...

    Ian

    Leave a comment:


  • EverKing
    replied
    I'm currently doing a revision of the d20 SRD. I was always a fan of the old AD&D 2nd. Edition with Player's Option rules and am incorporating some of the same ideas into my re-write of the d20 system. Well, it's more house rules, I guess (for legal purposes). I don't have anything solidified in ink yet, but I have almost 100 pages of notes on rules changes so far, and haven't touched specifics for the campaign setting I'm going to use it for. I still have alot of work to do; so far I just have the basic game system done and the early stages of the skill and character creation systems.

    Revisions include:

    1) revision of class structure to allow more flexibility (I've lately been considering a classless structure as well, but those tend to be overly complex. What I may do, is build it as a predominately classless system with pre-made skill sets that can be purchased at character creation that will fill the same role as classes).

    2) New HP system. Basically with this, I was tired as a DM/GM...and even as a player...of seeing characters taking massive damage without flinching. The system I'm going to incorporate will not be a level progressive system, so the HP's will remain in the tolerable range. I've been number-cruching various possibilities, but haven't chosen a specific system yet.

    3) Introducing Combat Skills to replace Weapon and Armour Feats and their ilk. After all, a character should be able to progress in a weapon skill just the same as any other skill. Feats will be reserved for special conditions/manoeuvres, etc.

    4) Changing the AC rules to reflect a more accurate portrayal of the role armour plays. Basically, with this one, a character will have a Dodge Class (DC, same as the Difficulty Class) that is the number needed to actually hit the character. If the PC is hit, then AC comes into play, as it absorbs damage. The background rules for it will be rather complex, but it shouldn't slow or complexify gameplay by any signifigant amout as the Charcter Sheets will have all the pre-calculated numbers readily available.

    5) Re-writting the magic system. I have a real problem with the way they combined Arcane and Divine Magic in d20. They are completely different powers and approaches. Further, If I decided to introduce Psionics, I'll go back to the 2nd Edition Skills & Powers version of Psionics (or something similar) so that psionics is not just another type of magic as it pretty much is in 3e.

    There are many other little chages, but those are the biggies! If any of you are intested, let me know and I'll send you a copy of what I have as soon as I get it on computer (warning: it may be another six months before I'm that far).

    What I am thinking of doing is just making all the basic rules, then making a seperate sourcebook for whatever campaign setting I decide to use. Right now it's either looking like an alternate version of Krynn cir. 2700PC (long story why its so far in the future) or an original setting based on a world in which I've set a number of my short stories. So, What I can do eventually (if I decide to circulate beyond my own house and as long as I don't use any copyrighted material not included in the Open-Sourse SRD) is get the lic. for these custom rules and send them out to any interested. But, as I said, that may be along time coming. After I get the basics done and a couple copies printed out for personal use I'll want to play test them for a while...once that is done, it'll be ready for circulation. Hey, anyone interested in play testing when I get to that point?

    Leave a comment:


  • SardonicSquirrel
    replied
    stormbringer

    I would be interested in hearing your ideas about tweaking the game.
    Especialy about sorcery.
    I have not played in the young kingdom in over 15 years and i was thinking of digging it out and start a new campaing.
    My players are interested so i was wondering what would be the coolest system to use. Wich one should i buy....
    They are of course used to the D20 system...but i guess any system will work.. :)

    Leave a comment:


  • Ian
    replied
    I was extremely disappointed with DLoM (yes, there is no d20 SB).

    It's purely Young Kingdoms background for D&D3E. Minor
    rules mods are in place for flavor (no demi-humans, though
    Orgians could be half-orc), the Allegiance system was ported
    over (to a degree) and Major Wounds were ported as well.
    The attempts at quantifying major characters was passable
    at best, and some creatures and personalities are plain wrong.

    I was hoping for a more Stormbringeresque magic system, and
    grittier combat. I really think Chaosium droped the ball in a rush
    to capitalize on the d20 craze.

    As a result, I have been pounding away some alternative rules
    (though, they are OGL and not d20). Mongoose's Conan RPG
    has some fresh ideas, and I hear good things about Grim Tales
    from Bad Axe Games. I lavishly add Ken Hood's hard to find
    Grim-n-Gritty Combat, and have been tweaking my own sorcery
    system.

    Oh, and I prefer the original (and current Chaosium system), but
    it also needs some tweaks. I hope to have tweaked versions of
    both worked out so that going back and forth is almost seamless.

    Ian

    Leave a comment:


  • Grey Mouser
    replied
    I'm pretty sure that Dragonlords of Melnibone is the d20 Stormbringer. Most of the contents of SB 5th ed and DLoM are the same except the respective system upon which it's based. I bought DLoM back in 2001 when it first came out but have not played it yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • JasonStarfire
    replied
    I picked up a copy of Chaosium's "Dragon Lords of Melnibone" several months ago, and it seems promising. I haven't actually been able to play yet, as my current gaming group has had to temporarily disband pending non-conflicting work scedules...

    But as for the d20 Stormbringer, nope. Haven't even seen a copy of it anywhere... yet.

    ~JS...

    Leave a comment:


  • SardonicSquirrel
    started a topic D20

    D20

    did anyone try D20 version of Stormbringer? and do you like it better then the old chaosium version?
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