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Cloned Cats

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  • Cloned Cats

    Mr M! You're sharing a state with the first cloned pussycat! (Various science journals, and front page of The Guardian 24/12/04). We can only hope that 'Little Nicky' has a longer, healthier life than 'Dolly'! Not too happy about this kind of experiment, personally - the theory and techniques are interesting, but the potential (and likely) welfare risks are unjustified to my mind...

    ...Also in The Grauniad today: 'Whales Get The Bends' - evidence of osteonecrosis due to deep diving in cetaceans. One of the authors is 'Michael J Moore' - A nom de plume? Have you been freelancing at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute?! :lol:

  • #2
    Re: Cloned Cats

    Originally posted by Perdix
    We can only hope that 'Little Nicky' has a longer, healthier life than 'Dolly'!
    And let's hope that he isn't as irritating or banal as the film he's named after. Darn you Adam Sandler, darn you to heck!!!
    "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild

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    • #3
      I can understand the desire, because I had a cat many years ago that I still miss. However, it just wouldn't seem right, I'd know it wasn't the original cat.
      Has it been christened 'Frankencat' by the media yet?
      You see, it's... it's no good, Montag. We've all got to be alike. The only way to be happy is for everyone to be made equal.

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      • #4
        Seems to me that dealing with death is crucial to getting on with life. The woman has lots of money - so she doesn't have to do that, she can go out and get kitty mark 2.

        I don't know - the whole cloning for social reasons seems a little ghoulish to me.
        Batman: It's a low neighborhood, full of rumpots. They're used to curious sights, which they attribute to alcoholic delusions.

        Robin: Gosh, drink is sure a filthy thing, isn't it? I'd rather be dead than unable to trust my own eyes!

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        • #5
          Imagine if there was a clone of yourself. How scary would that be?
          I'm really anti-cloning because of the dangers that could occur. Like, if they changed round the genetic information or something to make a SuperCat or something and introduced a novel organism to nature it would really screw things up. It would be like when grey squirrels were introduced to Britain then they killed most of the native red squirrels and stuff, but on a different level because the organism would never have been anywhere in the world before.
          I'm also scared something like E-Coli might happen again. That used to be harmless until some scientists started messing round with it then it turned dangerous.

          Why did they clone the cat anyway?

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          • #6
            So far conventional methods of reproduction seem superior to cloning, anyway. You could clone your favourite pet, for instance, but the personality of that pet is not necessarily going to be the same, since so many factors go into making up the personality.
            By the way, the grey squirrel didn't 'kill' the red squirrel. The red squirrel depends on hazel nuts for food and requires a certain kind of woodland to survive. Where that woodland exists, the red squirrel still exists. Grey squirrels are omniverous and can live almost anywhere, which is why we see so many of them in cities. There used to be red squirrels where I lived in Yorkshire, but they gradually disappeared as the woodland was either cleared or poisoned by dust from the local quarry. Usual story.

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            • #7
              I've got grey squirrels living in the roof of my 'writing shed'. They make forays into the 'engineering shed' to pinch the wild bird food and one of them has eaten half of one of my rucksacks. Pesky critturs! Cute though. I only ever saw one red squirrel - legging it across General Wade's Road next to Loch Ness. At least, I think it was a red squirrel. could have been a Plesiosaur, I suppose. Light was bad.

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              • #8
                Yeh I know I just couldnt be bothered describing it all
                Up here in Scotland I see a red squirrel every so often but I dont go up north as often anymore. I think I saw a red squirrel a few months back actually, in Spring while on a walk with my family.
                Grey squirrels are a major factor for the reduction of red squirrels because they often eat the foods the smaller red squirrels eat.
                At one place I used to go to which was trying to help red squirrels, if you saw a grey squirrel there you were supposed to report it. I remember sitting in the hide for hours looking out for red squirrels. I saw quite a lot there.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
                  So far conventional methods of reproduction seem superior to cloning, anyway. You could clone your favourite pet, for instance, but the personality of that pet is not necessarily going to be the same, since so many factors go into making up the personality.
                  Agreed.

                  And besides, aren't there plenty of homeless kitties in shelters that could stand a nice home?

                  Originally posted by TheAdlerian
                  Although it’s a bit mercenary, I can’t wait until someone clones a human. I am so tired of the reductionistic explanation of human behavior as being biochemical. It’s my bet that a clone would prove that personality is mostly based on a collection of experiences than bio programming. I would like to get back to viewing life experience as the defining factor.
                  Yeah, but as a psychologist, how do you think the human psyche would philosophically handle the idea of co-existing with a clone? Do you forsee and problems in that regard? I know you are an atheist, but still...
                  "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
                  --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

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                  • #10
                    Ooh, yes! In fact, three of them are attempting to lacerate my head as we speak! Yaroo!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TheAdlerian
                      I think that it might be a disaster.
                      But you can't wait for it to happen? Fascinating.

                      Originally posted by TheAdlerian
                      No matter what the clone was told I think that there would be a psychic weight to knowing that you were a duplicate. Really the person would not be a duplicate but as long as they thought that they were reality wouldn’t matter. However, it might not be important to that person; one never knows.
                      This is very true, which is why perhaps a 'better safe than sorry' mentality regarding human cloning might be prudent, no?
                      "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
                      --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

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                      • #12
                        Well the technology has some useful medical applications - for instance, the couple who had the 'designer' baby so that it would an optimal candidate for a bone marrow transplant for their other child. Also stem cell research that that will enable scientists to grow replacement organs tailor made for donor candidates, reducing rejection rates and freeing patients from a life of immuno suppressive drug therapy. There's also the applications it has for paraplegics and the like.

                        However, in terms of actually cloning a human being from the ground up I'm with Professor Winston on that one. I can't see what benefits it would bring - except as some sort of weird vanity project for the super rich. In a sense its removing a level of freedom from the person before they're even born, so they enter the world under a burden of social expectations of how they are supposed to behave (with inevitable comparisons made to the original 'host'.

                        Yeah, but as a psychologist, how do you think the human psyche would philosophically handle the idea of co-existing with a clone? Do you foresee and problems in that regard? I know you are an atheist, but still...

                        I think that it might be a disaster. No matter what the clone was told I think that there would be a psychic weight to knowing that you were a duplicate. Really the person would not be a duplicate but as long as they thought that they were reality wouldn’t matter. However, it might not be important to that person; one never knows.

                        I would also like to see it done because it would place religious people in a bind. They would have to look at a cute baby and say that it does not have a soul (this would not be everyone just those inclined). Anyway, it would create an ethical double bind! How do you stay moral while condemning a baby, yet maintain that it is not a real human. I can’t wait!
                        I think the answers to your questions can be found in the pages of any number of SF works from the last 50 years. Quite a few authors (William Gibson and Philip K Dick, to name but two) have explored the relationship between technology and how it impacts concepts of individual identity, memory and reality. That's actually the main focus of cyberpunk fiction.
                        Batman: It's a low neighborhood, full of rumpots. They're used to curious sights, which they attribute to alcoholic delusions.

                        Robin: Gosh, drink is sure a filthy thing, isn't it? I'd rather be dead than unable to trust my own eyes!

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                        • #13
                          I can't believe that people are spending thousands of dollars on this kind of thing. That money could have provided food and shelter for hundreds of homeless cats. Let's take care of existing cats before we start massproducing new ones.
                          You can't spell "politically correct" without "correct".

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rymdolov
                            I can't believe that people are spending thousands of dollars on this kind of thing. That money could have provided food and shelter for hundreds of homeless cats. Let's take care of existing cats before we start massproducing new ones.
                            Couldn't agree more, Rymdolov.

                            I also think that cloning a dear departed pet, other that being a bit gruesome, also cheapens your experience with that pet. I think you're missing most of the joy of sharing your life with your pets if you don't treat your expereinces with each of them as (literally) a once in a lifetime experience.

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                            • #15
                              Doc and Rymdolov, you have hit the nail on the head, I think...

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