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Superheroes & Realism (Batman, Superman, etc.)

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  • Superheroes & Realism (Batman, Superman, etc.)

    There's Batman-just an ordinary mortal, with a case of the red ass, a lot of money and a lust for revenge against criminals.

    Gotham City seems to have a lot of really crazy crooks.

    George RR Martin did a lot for the superhero idea in 'Wild Cards' and the Watchmen struck a chord with me, and seemed almost real.

    Superman is rather a chump-he could easily set the world to rights(and are we not charged to mend the world?) but he spends his time on common malefactors.

    The rest are usually too busy with self-pity to have real lives.

    But park de ol' debbil disbelief, and are these not glorious creatures?

  • #2
    "Glorious creatures"? Well, no. Batman and Superman are obsolete and quite possibly senile, they should be swept aside with the rest of their geriatric ilk to make way for younger, more interesting heroes.

    As a green boy once said:

    Old and smelly, smelly old Justice League...
    The Ralph Retort

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by krakenten View Post
      Superman is rather a chump-he could easily set the world to rights(and are we not charged to mend the world?) but he spends his time on common malefactors.
      You might read Miracleman (formerly Marvelman) by The Original Writer (formerly Alan Moore), specifically Book Three: Olympus (with John Totleben), for why that might not be such an appealing notion.
      _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
      _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
      _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
      _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by David Mosley View Post
        Originally posted by krakenten View Post
        Superman is rather a chump-he could easily set the world to rights(and are we not charged to mend the world?) but he spends his time on common malefactors.
        You might read Miracleman (formerly Marvelman) by The Original Writer (formerly Alan Moore), specifically Book Three: Olympus (with John Totleben), for why that might not be such an appealing notion.
        Not an appealing notion, in almost any context:

        Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex

        The Ralph Retort

        Comment


        • #5
          I spoke wearing my skeptical hat-when I followed the comics, I did like them.

          My favorites were 'Batman' and 'Blackhawk'-fr sme reasn, 'Blackhawk' was held to be somehow dirseputable by the old farts of the benighted town I was imprisoned in as a child(where everything was wrong and punishment was a daily affair, even if the wrong person was punished) so I had to be careful where I read it.

          Except for a few 3-D books, they were the only ones I bought.

          I've lost interest in comics-I do enjoy the films, sometimes,but I care little for what the rest of the costumed vigilantes do.

          I've seen the real world, where power always corrupts, and motives are usually pretty base. The thought of superheroes frightens me-imagine Superman's protection racket?-able to twist your head off, deciding guilt or innocence on the spot?

          Mike Hammer is bad enough, and at least, he can't fly.

          Boil it down, we live in a world where we are abused,cheated and humiliated n a daily basis. Superheroes let us imagine someone interested in justice.

          Go watch the news.

          Dream on.

          Comment


          • #6
            Krakenten, did you read Watchmen?
            I'd like to know what you make/made of it.
            Touches on so much of what has just been discussed.

            Comment


            • #7
              I saw the movie of "Watchmen", but I didn't read the book.

              What I made of it? A very good examination of what a world with superheroes might be like. George RR Martin's "Wild Cards" did the same,and did it well, but the gritty,and very complex world of the Watchmen , hardboiled and rather sad seemed very real to me. Considering.

              Malin Akeman was a knockout. And her acting was superb.

              The lesson? Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely(we knew that, but it has to be restated, time to time).

              It also makes a minor point-Rorshach was bullied, he grew into a monster. Bullies and tyrants do too much harm to be ignored, our world has no place for them-and they must be made to understand that.

              What goes up, must come down. The true lesson of life.

              I had a great time watching it, I hope to do so again, if I can ever get hold of a DVD player that really works.

              The various downfalls of the others were very Greek tragedy-hey, after a couple of thousand years, there's got to be something there?

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by dreeness View Post
                "Glorious creatures"? Well, no. Batman and Superman are obsolete and quite possibly senile, they should be swept aside with the rest of their geriatric ilk to make way for younger, more interesting heroes.
                I think there's still a place for them as long as they are fun and keep to their simple roots.

                I think there would be much more of a point to their existence if they weren't licensed by big conservative companies who forbade offbeat stories, exploring Superman being gay for example.

                There's a new comic called Batman 66 which is set in the world of the Adam West show, but imagining it with a big budget, so it has things like Batman going around around in a giant Batman shaped robot. I'd much rather read something like that than some realistic exploration over what mental problems or effects on crime he would have which I think has been done to death.

                I think they still have some power as fun icons of heroism from a bygone age. which potentially can tell the odd good story. IE the idea of Superman having a protection racket, but that's the fantasy of him, someone with that much power who chooses not to use it for dominance, or struggles trying to figure out which situations to intervene in and which he should leave people to sort out themselves.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by dreeness View Post
                  "Glorious creatures"? Well, no. Batman and Superman are obsolete and quite possibly senile, they should be swept aside with the rest of their geriatric ilk to make way for younger, more interesting heroes.

                  As a green boy once said:

                  Old and smelly, smelly old Justice League...
                  I found this comic at a recent mart while searching for a different Nick Cardy B&B
                  Attached Files

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                  • #11
                    Hee-hee!



                    ----------------

                    Oh, have you guys seen this thing yet?

                    ▶ Nightwing: The Series - Episode 1 [Deathstroke] - YouTube

                    It's really fun stuff.

                    The Ralph Retort

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      "Laugh while you can" sez the Caped Crusader, as he sends a Batarang on its lethal mission!

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        I like super heroes comics when they are well written in spite of the authors trying to be realistic or not. There you have Alan Moore doing Tom Strong and Watchmen and despite the two being quite opposite in terms of what they present they both are great works.

                        That said, in average I rather enjoy Super Heroes cartoons specially the 90s to now revamp.
                        Last edited by zlogdan; 11-01-2014, 11:54 AM.
                        "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                        "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Here's a thought(fnord)-Sci-fi and the comics are much like the Commedia del'Arte, much beloved of our goodly host.

                          It isn't real, nor supposed to be! It's stylized entertainment, comfort food for the brain.

                          Suppose HAL hadn't gone ape? Or that the Monolith had been pulverized by a meteor? Now that's an adult story for you, but not much fun.

                          I say long live Buzz Corey, Rocky Jones and Tom Corbett(who retired from the Solar Guard and became Governor of Pennsylvania). Let us revel in tales of rocks and rockets, as we did in childhood.

                          Because, cousin, there ain't nothin' out there but vacuum(damn but that's a hard one to spell)and stuff that will kill you.

                          Charles Stross has the best answer-his characters are biomechanical constructs, that are not exactly human, yet are people.

                          Took me a while to remember(fnord) that.

                          It's entertainment-let's enjoy it!(fnord)

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            One thing I believe -

                            I think people associate camp with stupid,dull because so many classic shows from the camp era had predictable formula stories - Adam West Batman, Wonder Woman, A Team, the sillier Bond films etc.

                            And simultaneously tv and movies became more interestingly written at the same time as they were allowed to become darker and grittier,

                            I believe this has made people associate a false link between the 2 and see camp as dull and dark as mature.

                            However, in my opinion there is no reason why something cannot be camp and colourful and also deal with big issues, real feelings, or have interesting and varied stories.

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