Announcement

Collapse

Welcome to Moorcock's Miscellany


Dear reader,

Many people have given their valuable time to create a website for the pleasure of posing questions to Michael Moorcock, meeting people from around the world, and mining the site for information. Please follow one of the links above to learn more about the site.

Thank you!
See more
See less

Orson Scott Card, new (anti-gay) Superman writer [split]

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Orson Scott Card, new (anti-gay) Superman writer [split]

    Some other comic news relating to gay rights here. I'm not a fan of Orson Scot Card, but I'm not sure to what extent he'll be allowed to use Superman to express is homophobia or not as the petition suggests. I'd assume not, but I thought it might be of interest. DC's response here.
    forum

    1. a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest
    2. a medium for open discussion, such as a magazine
    3. a public meeting place for open discussion

  • #2
    Originally posted by The English Assassin View Post
    Some other comic news relating to gay rights here. I'm not a fan of Orson Scot Card, but I'm not sure to what extent he'll be allowed to use Superman to express is homophobia or not as the petition suggests. I'd assume not, but I thought it might be of interest. DC's response here.
    It is not possible for someone that wrote Songmaster to be homophobic, this quite confuses me. But then he wrote books about tolerance among different species and races and when the war on Iraq has started he started saying things " way too go USA, rule the world". I sold all of my books written by him, yet I still like most of them.

    From Wikipedia:
    The empire of Songmaster is a place of treachery, resembling that of ancient Rome and the Galactic Empire of Isaac Asimov's Foundation series. The book is morally ambivalent. True love, both heterosexual and homosexual, are major themes as are loyalty and honor. Fraud, kidnapping, assassination, murder are also prevalent and each of them is shown in more than one light. As with many of Card's works, this story is more about the interplay of people, and their moral issues, than it is about technology, although the Empire clearly has advanced technology.
    I am not questioning if he is anti-Gay or what, I just think Card is quite weird .

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songmaster
    "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
    "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by zlogdan View Post
      I am not questioning if he is anti-Gay or what, I just think Card is quite weird .
      Aye, he's certainly a weirdo

      I've only read Ender's Game, which fascinated me, although not in a good way. It is an interesting book tho. I think there's a relatively subtle anti-gay subtext to that novel ("buggers"), but I can't speak for the rest of his body of work.
      forum

      1. a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest
      2. a medium for open discussion, such as a magazine
      3. a public meeting place for open discussion

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by zlogdan View Post
        ...
        It is not possible for someone that wrote Songmaster to be homophobic, this quite confuses me. But then he wrote books about tolerance among different species and races and when the war on Iraq has started he started saying things " way too go USA, rule the world". I sold all of my books written by him, yet I still like most of them.
        ...
        He's on the Board of Directors of this group: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...age#Leadership. Check out their activities.

        Originally posted by The English Assassin View Post
        ...
        I've only read Ender's Game, which fascinated me, although not in a good way. It is an interesting book tho. I think there's a relatively subtle anti-gay subtext to that novel ("buggers"), but I can't speak for the rest of his body of work.
        He's gotten less subtle: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011...gay-paedophile

        Comment


        • #5
          I know he has become more clearly homophobic and clearly against what he has said in his previous books, but then I don't care for his books any longer.

          ps Please don't corrupt my public view and mention that I have read, and liked, Orson Scott card
          Last edited by zlogdan; 02-19-2013, 06:19 AM.
          "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
          "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

          Comment


          • #6
            More fact than suggestion these days: OSC rants again.

            One wonders if he, Frank Millar and the like have always been <insert reactionary them/us term here>, or have just lost it as they grow older, discover the world isn't listening to them and start to see the shadows of their mortality.

            Fear does indeed seem to be a weapon that will always strike its wielder.

            Comment


            • #7
              I can tell you Ladies and gentleman, I am a proud recovered OSC reader. I was a reader back in the 90s, even had the terrible habit of quoting him among my favorites. I read "Speaker For The Dead" within a day.

              I was quite surprised by his liberal views depicted in his books and was appalled by his views and judgement of how humans deal with the "different" at his Ender books. I could even say that I thought he was an humanitarian.

              Then a few years later, I read he was cheering up for American soldiers to literally "save the world" on Irak and the whole thing seemed strange to me. I sold everything I had of his works, around 9 books, and I admit to this day sometimes I regret that, but whenever he's speaking publicly these days just makes me proud of considering my self an ex reader.

              While I personally think I had become with the a years a quite pettish man, and my tolerance towards criminals and politicians has vanished away, I still cannot join Frank Miller, John Byrne or Card in their recent speeches.
              "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
              "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by zlogdan View Post
                I still cannot join Frank Miller, John Byrne or Card in their recent speeches.
                Just came to think of it, back in the 1980'es there was an extended debate about Byrne's homophobia in The Comics Journal. A letter from a gay reader expressed his great surprise, going on something like: "You see, he draws such handsome men." Heh.

                [EDIT:] Oh, by the way, since this is a thread about Card, I suppose I should say something about him as an excuse for my aside. Only book of his I ever read - decades ago - is Ender's Game. I thought there were a few vague traces of homophobia in it, but put it down to my own paranoia. The reason I never read any more of his stuff honestly had nothing to do with gay policies, but I just never understood what all the fuzz was about. It seemed to me to be a quite bland and predictable experience and I decided there was more interesting stuff around. Maybe there're some subtle subtexts in the book that I just don't get? Just like I don't really get why some American Churches invest huge amounts of money in movements lobbying to get death penalty for homosexual acts in defenseless countries like Uganda.
                Last edited by Jagged; 01-01-2014, 10:55 PM. Reason: Grammar
                "If the environment were a bank, we would already have saved it." -Graffitti.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rothgo View Post
                  More fact than suggestion these days: OSC rants again.

                  [Quote from referred article:] "Now he's gone on another rant, this time about the Obama administration, calling the President 'a dictator' and comparing him to Adolf Hitler."
                  He shouldn't be so antagonistic to Hitler. After all, Hitler's biggest target second only to Jews, was exactly homosexuals. He should give "Mein Kampf" a chance... it might have a lot to offer him.
                  "If the environment were a bank, we would already have saved it." -Graffitti.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I did'nt think it was such a big deal before I realized who it is.
                    Afterall, Supermans as straight as they come. You could'nt make him gay, so a homophobic writer is'nt going to hurt it.

                    Then I realized it was that twat.

                    He is seriously nastyand wierd.
                    Enders Game looks incrediblely stupid.

                    Him in charge of Superman would not be good.
                    Going Linear Is The Only Game Garanteed To Drive You Mad

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Grivessillus View Post
                      Afterall, Supermans as straight as they come. You could'nt make him gay, so a homophobic writer is'nt going to hurt it.
                      I don't at all agree with that. Now we're talking Hitler, an analogous argument would be: "Superman is a Caucasian, so there'd me no problem having an antisemitic guy writing it."

                      But we're talking internal squabbles here. The point still is Card's populistic nonsense:

                      'He wraps up thus: "When the historians write about it after the fact, they will point out how obvious all the signs were from the start - the way they write about Hitler now. Why did so many people go along with him?"'

                      Could anybody clear up this question: When Card writes 'he' here, is he still talking about Hitler, or about himself?
                      "If the environment were a bank, we would already have saved it." -Graffitti.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think Griv was being facetious, implying that Superman is a bit open (esp the 2006 one) to queer reading.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nathaniel View Post
                          I think Griv was being facetious, implying that Superman is a bit open (esp the 2006 one) to queer reading.
                          Yeah. Well, I can just sometimes be such a nitpicker that I'm unable to resist putting in a footnote when I see a statement that could be misused if taken too literally. I don't have any doubt that Griv's intentions are all laudable.
                          "If the environment were a bank, we would already have saved it." -Graffitti.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            To start with: I don't care at all about any of this topic . However, one aspect of the topic does strike me as curious.

                            Why, due to to personal beliefs, should any any writer be stifled from writing? Certainly any individual may make their own choice as to read or ignore said writing but isn't the stifling of a voice (objectionable or not) removing the liberty of the writer's freedom of expression?

                            I'd never heard of Orson Scott Card until a day or two ago (I saw his name on a book cover and thought it was a strange name). I've never read any of his work nor do I intend to. But I also wonder why he should not be free to gain meaningful employment without a petition being circulated to remove him from said employment. If DC Comics find him to be of a standard that they require shouldn't they be free to employ him?

                            All in all, this example makes me wonder at the price of freedom. To me it seems that that price is the revocation of the freedom of others.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              freedom of speach is about the *government* not interfearing with what one can say. A pettition is a group of private citizens making their views on an issue known. I don't see the conflict here.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X