Sort of a Pyat related question.

[Krimson]

Hey there Mike,

I am still reading Byzantium Endures (more than halfway through), and I got to the point where there were references to Gurdjieff and his disciple Ouspensky. It has been at least ten years since I have read anything by either of them, and that was really light reading which I covered while studying into Gnosticism through a Gnostic group called the Universal Christian Gnostic Movement. They are a bit of a radical group, which is strongest in the Spanish speaking world, and I dissassociated from them after coming to know their politics (though for a time, I did teach some free lectures for them primarily dealing with pranayama breathing and meditation since I study yoga). Anyways, all weirdness aside, I was wondering if you could recommend any works by Gurdjieff? Its been quite a while since I have been into any philosophical reading, and the topic came up the other night when I found myself in a group with my friend Christine and another fellow talking about Ayurveda which quickly shifted focus to hinduism and philsophy.

[Michael Moorcock]

It's been a while since I read any Gurdjieff or anything about him.
That book was, after all, written 26 years ago! I was originally interested in him in relation to Katherine Mansfield and also Rudolf Steiner. I saw him, with the earlier Blavatsky and the later Crowley, part of a mystical response to social change and technical advance, so I was never very much involved in his work as such. However, I did read a fair bit of him some 30 or more years ago. Barry Bayley was for a while at least more interested in Gurdjieff. Maybe we should talk about this (Barry and I) in the next Fireside Chat episode in Fantastic Metropolis.

[MikeH]

Re: Sort of a Pyat related question.

I was wondering if you could recommend any works by Gurdjieff?

I was also led to Gurdjieff and Ouspensky by a Moorcock connection, but in my case it was their featuring in Aldiss's Barefoot in the Head. I read Gurdjieff's Meetings with Remarkable Men but I have to say it didn't impress me enough to make me want to read the extemely lengthy Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson - over 1200 pages!

But Gurdjieff was a teacher, as well as a writer, and what you may find interesting are two books about his life and teachings. Firstly, there is G. I. Gurdjieff: The War Against Sleep by Colin Wilson, and published by The Aquarian Press, which is a brief but interesting biography; secondly, there is Witness: The Autobiography of John Bennett, published by Turnstone Press Limited; Bennett was one of Gurdjieff's most prominent followers, later becoming involved with Subud, and with the Indian sage Shivapuri Baba. These are both UK books - and presumably now out-of-print - but you may be able to get hold of them through AbeBooks.

Hope this is of some help!

[Krimson]

Thank you Mikes!

Mike M - I knew it was a while since you had wrote Byzantium, and sometimes I am forgetful of just how long your career has spanned. Well, maybe not forgetful so much as absorbed. My reading time has always been a timeless experience, especially with your works which have such a fluid chronology. Suffice it to say, I was hoping something had stuck in your mind. Though I can understand your position, being someone who likely spends more time writing than reading. When I think about it, I can rarely remember specifics myself.

I'm not so familiar with the works of Steiner, though I have read Crowley extensively. I've found Crowley to be a bit boorish for the most part, though his works do have excellent moments of lucidity. In particular, I have always been fond of his essay on Energized Enthusiasm, which seems to have some common ground with Pyat. In some ways, I have found a stronger connection in the writings of Crowley's protoge, Charles Stansfeld Jones (Frater Achad), who seemed to spend more time practising the mystical experience rather than intellectualizing it.

Mike H, I appreciated your recommendation. The work you cited by Colin Wilson is likely what I would like to read, as more of a Gurdjieff sampler. The only work I have read of his was the Outsider, and I can't really recall much of it since I was in high school at the time. I am more interested in the basics of Gurdjieff's philosophy and doubt that reading an exhaustive work would be more than, well, exhaustive for me.

Thanks both for your inputs.