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Bks: El: Quarzasaat or Quarzhasaat?

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  • Bks: El: Quarzasaat or Quarzhasaat?

    Author: Oren Douek
    Date: 05-03-01 02:37

    I'm reading "The Dreamthief's Daughter" and in the beginning of Chapter Six Oona tells Von Bek that he met her mother "In Quarzasaat". Something seemed wrong with this name to me so I went back to "Fortress of the Pearl" and found indeed that the name there is "Quarzhasaat" (notice the 'h').

    A mistake I guess?

    ~ Oren
    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is The Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  • #2
    Author: Jhary-a-Conel
    Date: 05-04-01 08:21

    Is it possible that it an alternate version of Quarzhasaat that she is referring to? Sort of alluding to the existance of multiple Elrics? Therefore, how many daughters or versions of daughters might this incarnation of Elric encountered? Which version of Melnibone did Elric hail from?

    Jhary-a-Conel
    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is The Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

    Comment


    • #3
      Author: Oren Douek
      Date: 05-04-01 11:58

      Indeed. I've been having this thought myself; a different version of Quarzhasaat. I also had another idea. It might be that Ulric, who is the narrator of the story, put it to the paper in such a way. After all, he did note that the name sounded oriental to him.

      ~ OREN
      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is The Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

      Comment


      • #4
        The Actual Narrator - was Re: Quarzasaat or Quarzhasaat?

        Author: Jhary-a-Conel (---.harbornet.com)
        Date: 05-05-01 20:54

        Hmmmm.

        May I suggest you expand your thinking? Ulrich seems like the narrator. Then Elric seems like the narrotor. But during the transition from and to and from and to, I noticed that the narrator wasn't changing at all. Is that a paradox? No! The narrator is The Eternal Champion. It's his perspective that changes; the narrator doesn't change.

        I believe Mr. Moorcock has successfully explained one aspect of The Champion's nature (and thus the multiverse's nature) with this story.
        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is The Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

        Comment


        • #5
          Author: D'averc
          Date: 07-12-01 13:50

          I congratulate u on seeing a new facet to this paradox jhary, one which seems clever enough to probably be correct.
          The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is The Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

          Comment


          • #6
            Author: Oren Douek
            Date: 07-13-01 08:02

            Another thing to note:

            The hero's name is Ulric and not Ulrich (as Jhary erroneously called him on his message). But, wait. That's another missing 'h'. Ulric instead of Ulrich. Quarzassat instead of Quarzhassat. Seems like a pattern! I wonder if there are any more occurences of this that we've missed.

            The name of the companion of Erekose in The Dragon in the Sword was Ulrich. Here's the beginning of chapter one of that book:

            "The man called himself Ulrich von Bek and he had come out of a camp in Germany called Sachsenhausen. His crime was that he was a Christian and had spoken against the Nazis. He has been released (thanks to well-meaning friends) in 1938. In 1939, when his attempt to kill Adolf Hitler had failed, he had escaped the Gestapo by entering the realm we now both occupied. I called it Maaschanheem but he called it simply the Middle Marches."

            As you see his background doesn't coincide with Ulric's one as presented in The Dreamthief's Daughter. Ulric says "We escaped from Hamlen on 1935, I believe." on Chapter 19 ("Beyond the Grey Fees). Ulrich on the other hand escaped Sachsenhausen on 1938 and not 1935. I wonder if Ulric's and Ulrich's past has been the same up until 1935 when they were arrested and placed in the concentration camp. Ulric would end up being rescued by Oona, while Ulrich would need to spend another 3 years until he would be rescued. Who were Ulrich's well meaning friends? I wonder...
            Also Ulrich tried to kill Hitler on 1939, but Ulric was at that time with Oona on his adventure. He would be back to Germany only on 1940. Maybe Ulric retruned to Germany at the same time Ulrich escaped to the Middle Marches? Have they replaced one another? They might have been the same person up until 1935, when they diverged. From there on only one would exist in Germany at any given time, while the other one would be in the Middle Marches...

            Please share your thoughts with me,

            Oren Douek
            Tel Aviv, Israel

            P.S. I read an interview with Moorcock that he is active on the multiverse.org boards. Is that true?
            The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is The Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

            Comment


            • #7
              Author: D'averc
              Date: 07-13-01 08:16

              The character of Ulrich Von Bek, is also the central character in 'the warhound and the world's pain' Is this the same Ulrich as in the dragon in the sword???
              The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is The Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

              Comment


              • #8
                Author: Oren Douek
                Date: 07-13-01 11:10

                D'averc wrote:
                >
                > The character of Ulrich Von Bek, is also the central
                > character in 'the warhound and the world's pain' Is this the
                > same Ulrich as in the dragon in the sword???

                I have yet to read that novel... Hopefully soon!

                Maybe other members of these boards can help us here.

                Oren.
                The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is The Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Author: D'averc
                  Date: 07-13-01 16:36

                  Ulrich Von bek is also the central character in City in the autumn stars, I think this is the son of Ulrich who appeared in warhound.


                  You should read Dragon in the sword. I am gonna read it tonight. Again. The eternal Champion series has a quality so that, i enjoy rreading them over and over again. Some books once is enough, but not these.

                  Happy Readings Oren
                  The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is The Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Another 'h' that is missing is in the name Weldrake in the epigram, elsewhere he is Wheldrake.
                    Statistically 6 out of 7 dwarfs are not happy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I believe that Ulric and Ulrich are just different aspects of each other from different plains of existance. In The Swords Trilogy, Corum sees another aspect of himself and Jhary. The closer another plain is to yours, the closer the similarities and vice versa.
                      "The world is such-and-such or so-and-so only because we tell ourselves that that is the way it is. If we stop telling ourselves that the world is so-and-so, the world will stop being so-and-so." - don Juan

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree with you SERPNTA1267, the missing 'h's are a sign that the events are occurring in a different scale of the multiverse.
                        Statistically 6 out of 7 dwarfs are not happy.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by Michael Moorcock View Post
                          As a matter of interest, Oren, do you read Hebrew ? I was wondering how the Hebrew Elric translations seem.
                          Wow, I'm slow. Just noticed this thread (thanks to Berry). Sorry about that. I haven't gotten to reading the new Hebrew Elric translations, unfortunately. The original ones were excellent, and were the ones that introduced me to Elric.

                          One thing I've noticed in the new translations (I saw an excerpt from the first book somewhere) is that for some reason they translated Cymoril to be pronounced with a 'K' as Kimoril, which made me a bit suspicious. I think that in the past translation was a more professional vocation, especially when it came to SF and fantasy. These days they would sometimes give the work to students whose English knowledge might be far from perfect (and even a firm grasp of both languages doesn't guarantee a good translation). At least this is the situation in Israel. I hope this wasn't the case with the new Elric translations. I'll try to get my hands on them sometimes soon, and let you know my findings

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            A general problem with sf and fantasy. Publishers look to amateur enthusiasts as 'experts'. The problem isn't universal and might even be reversing, but some of my Russian translations, done by enthusiasts who produced them as 'samizdat', are pretty awful. Some attempt has been made in recent years to correct this.

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