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Jerry & Anarchy

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  • Jerry & Anarchy

    I have a vague recollection of seeing you on a late night TV show many years ago talking about being an anarchist. I think you gave the example of reasons not to shoot a red light, not because of the law but because of wishing to avoid an accident.

    Jerry seems to me to inhabit an anarchic version of our reality, or maybe our reality with the contrast turned up, everything taking a few steps to the left and seen at an oblique angle.

    So does Jerry wait at traffic lights ?

    or does he live in Hobbes' nasty, brutish and short state of lawlessness ?
    http://final-frame-final.blogspot.com/

  • #2
    Originally posted by zilch
    So does Jerry wait at traffic lights ?
    Apparantly, he does (in A Cure for Cancer) - as least according to the Imagining Albion documentary earlier this year.
    _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
    _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
    _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
    _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

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    • #3
      Anarchy ids based on the respect of others of their freedom and their life ........

      Anarchy without respect of others is individualism .....

      Too often, people think they are anarchists or right wing anarchists because they are individualists .....

      Individualism is not enough to qualify as anarchist !

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      • #4
        ...and so what is called an individualist who respects the rights and freedom of others?
        "A man is no man who cannot have a fried mackerel when he has set his mind on it; and more especially when he has money in his pocket to pay for it." - E.A. Poe's NICHOLAS DUNKS; OR, FRIED MACKEREL FOR DINNER

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        • #5
          he can be called a democrat, a liberal etc ......

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism

          but for ananarchist : What is property ? property is thieving !
          Last edited by Morgan Kane; 11-20-2006, 12:40 AM.

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          • #6
            There is an early individualist anarchist tradition in America, folks like de Cleyere, Warren (always impressed by his Time Store), Tucker, Thoreau, and of course more recently there is word of a promising young writer most recently out of Texas...
            Last edited by Talisant; 11-20-2006, 04:17 AM.
            "A man is no man who cannot have a fried mackerel when he has set his mind on it; and more especially when he has money in his pocket to pay for it." - E.A. Poe's NICHOLAS DUNKS; OR, FRIED MACKEREL FOR DINNER

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Talisant
              There is an early individualist anarchist tradition in America, folks like de Cleyere, Warren (always impressed by his Time Store), Tucker, Thoreau, and of course more recently there is word of a promising young writer most recently out of Texas...
              I can see I have a fair amount of reading to do.


              Originally posted by David Mosley
              Apparantly, he does (in A Cure for Cancer) - as least according to the Imagining Albion documentary earlier this year.
              and listening, if there is anyway of hearing this documentary.
              http://final-frame-final.blogspot.com/

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              • #8
                This essay may prove to be of some use in the above debate....
                Individualist Anarchism vs. "Libertarianism" and Anarchocommunism
                http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/mcelroy1.html
                Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the boot-maker.
                Bakunin

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                • #9
                  Interesting paper ...

                  Christian pacifism and Tolstoy are not anarchists as they accept the social and economical order, even if the dream of a repeat of the pastoral past .

                  Individual anrchism as defined by the paper is individualism not anrchism for the same reason . The author says justly that historical anarchism shared marwxist view about exploitation and alienation of the workers

                  That explains the derive to modern libertarianism who is the supporter of the dictature of capitalism and free markets, which are the contrary of anarchism

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                  • #10
                    Wow, I believe that we process the same words through very different filters, c'est la vie, I hope at least in the Multiverse that there's enough time/space to accommodate us all.
                    Last edited by Talisant; 12-04-2006, 10:56 PM.
                    "A man is no man who cannot have a fried mackerel when he has set his mind on it; and more especially when he has money in his pocket to pay for it." - E.A. Poe's NICHOLAS DUNKS; OR, FRIED MACKEREL FOR DINNER

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                    • #11
                      Contrariness

                      Incidently, if you want to find this argument about the relationship of anarchism to communism in Mikes books, try reading Oswald Bastable - its ages since I read it, but I have a slight suspicion it reflects (or at least reflected) his opinion on the topic of the relationship of anarchy and communism..... I can't remember which book of the trilogy its in, though!

                      Incidentally, I've never seen much of the communist in Jerry Cornelius! But maybe I read it wrong!

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                      • #12
                        You're right. Jerry's no Commie. A situationalist, yes. An anarchist, therefore. Philosophically. I recommend my essay The Retreat from Liberty, a somewhat hastily penned argument soon after Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan had begun to promote their economics as the only viable kind in the universe. It tends to show my optimism of 20 years ago. Still, I'm mostly an optimist. I'm inclined to believe that pessismists don't write books because they know they wouldn't be read anyway. I still think there's a chance to repair damage and bring improvements at home and abroad, but I wouldn't know the odds. If we pull out of this one, I'll believe in the inherent power of the Balance, believe me.
                        Anyway, though I know a lot of communists and ex-communists, whom I respect, I've never considered Jerry anything but pretty much the opposite of communism as we've seen it practised.

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                        • #13
                          Mike, would you go as far as to say that you personally share some of the anti-authoritarian/libertarian/philosphical/political views that Jerry Cornelius exhibits? And if so, in that sense at least, is the character somewhat autobiographical? And if not, which character(s) would you say are closest to being autobiographical, if that is the right word?

                          On a related subject, I have tried over the years to condense or catagorise the political message projected by Hawkwind. They certainly have anarchist/libertarian principles, but there is so much more. I was reading the lyrics to their recent "The reality of Poverty", which has striking simularities to Gore's new movie "An Inconvenient Truth"; Population explosion, Global Warming, 50 years left etc. I dont know the rest of Gore's views, but on the strength of that presentation alone I would very likely vote for Gore if I was an American citizen.

                          Sustainable living is very close to my heart, to do anything else is like cutting our own children's, children's throats, which is plain nuts. As always, in the end, the Balance will likely ultimately take its toll here as well. It is also possible to find similar messages in "Uncle Sams on Mars", but I also share the views of Hawking (as well as Hawkwind!) when he says that the next few hundred years are very dangerous for mankind and that we have to colonise other places in space to give us more hope for the survival of mankind. Perhaps mankind also needs a goal of exploration, something to aim for to unite us? Perhaps reminiscent of the bold discoverers of the new world?

                          Despite agreeing with most of Bob's views in "Uncle Sams on Mars", I actually do have 2 old bangers in the garage, which we need, and which also makes me feel like a real fraud, but I cannot help the way modern society has been designed. I do my best, but for the future someone, or some kind of world government body, needs to sit down and design a better and more sustainable way of life. We have every right to blame our leaders for the path their have led us down.

                          Other Hawkwind themes which are important are freedom from facisim, police state, 1984 Big Brother, checking your identity, what you are doing and where you have been. Also Love and Peace and greater tolerance for those who are different to you, as well as anti-war messages, similar to Ghandi's style of pacificsm. The Petro war theme in Hassan i Sahba (Bush's Iraq?). The insanity of Nuclear War - Damnation Alley - thankyou Dr Stranglove for going doolalley. Does M.A.D. really keep the peace or have we just been lucky this far? Also comment on modern society, 25 years on, High Rise and Robot - I know the meaning of these words time and time again every monday morning! The messages are there for all to see and most definately relevant and important to us all, and in some cases even prophetic. I would also add that these views must ultimately be those of Dave B himself, as well as probably many of the musicians that have played with the band.

                          Even Tolkien has a green political message in the LOTR, the Shire, the destruction of Fangorn Forest by Saruman and the rising of the Ents. etc. In Dick's Bladerunner we also see a dark future in which the planet has been scarred horribly by industrialisation. Perhaps this is fairly common theme in the world of fantasy?
                          Last edited by Tales from Tanelorn; 12-10-2006, 04:21 PM.

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                          • #14
                            There was an article on CNN yesterday regarding the discovery of water on Mars.
                            CNN:
                            New photographs from space suggest that water occasionally flows on the frigid surface of Mars, raising the tantalizing possibility that the red planet is hospitable to life, scientists reported Wednesday.

                            http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/1....ap/index.html
                            Would you prefer something a little more local such as the Moon perhaps.....or are you willing to commute?
                            Who knows.... you might even run into Yusharisp or Capn. Mubbers on the Red Planet.

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                            • #15
                              Finding running water is the key, maybe Europa? brrrr!

                              "All These Worlds Are Yours Except Europa. Attempt No Landing There. Use Them Together. Use Them in Peace."


                              I already met some of Cpn Mubbers relatives in Buckingham Palace!
                              Last edited by Tales from Tanelorn; 12-08-2006, 12:34 PM.

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