Jerry Cornelius in M M´s Multiverse, of DC Comics

[RitaMaria]

Rereading Michael Moorcockآ´s Multiverse - that very fantastic work written by Mike and art by Simonson, Reeve and Ridgways - a question has come to my mind...
Is that Jerry Silverstein/Silverskin - mentioned firstly in the segment The Metatemporal Detective, part 7 - Waiting for Sisyphus - a version of Jerry Cornelius, isnآ´t He?
Inclusively, His brother is Frank too.
Rita.

[Lord Doom]

Yep, that was my understanding. Jerry appears in one incarnation or another in just about every MM book, usually as the sidekick Jhary a Conel, etc. And they are inclusively, after all, just various incarnations of the Eternal Champion.

Always wondered if the companion to the champion was, in fact, just another aspect of the champion himself as well. And then there's the opposite number i.e. Gaynor, et al...

It's like looking at the multiverse itself: it may drive you insane if you think about it too much ;)

But allow Mike to chime in, since he is the architech of the whole thing.

Or perhaps it's all explain in White Wolf's Son...

Jeff

[Michael Moorcock]

He's Jerry Cornelius but he's also my real-life friend Jerry Goldstein...
Jerry appears in The Cardinal and the Corpse, the movie by Sinclair and Petit which also features Alan Moore and me... Yes, you probably would go mad if you tried to make every connection I've made over the years.
It could be that I'm already totally barmy or that I've managed to keep sane by offloading this stuff into books and pictures... :D

[Suilebhain]

I have always seen the elements of the Champion as one being, that is, the makeup of the Agent of Change that is required to push the Multiverse into the new cycle:

The Champion
The Companion
The Lover
The Weapon
The Adversary

In some cases, one element is stronger or more dominant than the others.

For example, the Lover in Elric's incarnation was weak, the Companion skilled, and the Weapon extremely powerful. However, in Jerry Cornelius' incarnation, the Weapon is very weak by comparison (needlegun), the Lover is nearly dead, and the Companion, Una Persson, is powerful (and alternates between Jerry and Una who actually is the Companion and who is the Champion at what point). Corum's weapon is not magical, but the demon artifacts that are grafted to him are, thus the Weapon is not a conventional handheld device, but something that is a part and yet not a part of the Champion.

So, when we see Jhary a Conel show up as Corum's Companion, the spectrum of probabilities for combination is carried one place further but the fabric is intact.

Of course, I could be totally full of crap, too.

((oops, didn't mean to post after MM on this - just took me that long))

[Michael Moorcock]

Don't forget Corum's full name... Is it possible to be a Companion to the Companion or Champion to Champion ?
Ouch. Just a minute, I need to adjust my head...

[Suilebhain]

Heh heh...Corum Jhaelen Irsai (if I spelled it correctly). The first time I figured it out I was so proud of myself.

It would seem in the Cornelius stuff (I feel odd discussing theory of a work with the author himself, but I guess it is no odder than Elric attending a party at Jerry's house) that there is often the Champion to the Champion. I would say that most of the time Una appears Jerry is sorta like, ah, rats, now I have to sit it out.

I do have another question, Mike. The little black and white cat...did you have a writing buddy during that period who was a little black and white cat?

[Lord Doom]

Nice theorizing! It was late at night when I wrote, so my head was fuzzy from exhaustion, but the thought came through.

I always thought it would be a cool idea if Mike worte a story where the companions all met, or at least three or four, and had to combine their essence to battle some entity or another, as did the champion several times. Oh well. (disclaimer: I do not own this idea, nor will I seek monetary compensation if ever said scenerio is ever utilized by said author Michael Moorcock. *sigh* ah, legalities. JS)

I never figured "the lover" into the equation, but it makes some sense, since these were all "romances" and love was usually integral to the theme even though the lovers usually died or turned out to be traitors ;)

Yes, insanity. Like trying to figure out the Von Bek family tree, or even which Rose is related to whom, and who the kids are and... ah, madness indeed.

But it's fun. That's why I love the EC multiverse. So rich in detail, that each and every new read offers up new information and a new experience. That's why it's literature and not just empty prose.

I'm going to miss the fantasties.

Best,

Jeff

[Ant]

I have always seen the elements of the Champion as one being, that is, the makeup of the Agent of Change that is required to push the Multiverse into the new cycle:

The Champion
The Companion
The Lover
The Weapon
The Adversary

In some cases, one element is stronger or more dominant than the others.

...

This seems very reminiscent of the cast in commedia dell' arte... ? Which I think Mike made explicit in The Condition of Muzak.

Ciao,
Ant

[Governor of Rowe Island]

I have always seen the elements of the Champion as one being, that is, the makeup of the Agent of Change that is required to push the Multiverse into the new cycle:

The Champion
The Companion
The Lover
The Weapon
The Adversary

In some cases, one element is stronger or more dominant than the others.

...

This seems very reminiscent of the cast in commedia dell' arte... ? Which I think Mike made explicit in The Condition of Muzak.

Ciao,
Ant

I'm not at all familiar with the commedia dell' arte, except from Mike's books, but what Suilebhain suggests certainly seems to strike a resonance with most of the EC stories.

[Pietro_Mercurios]

I have always seen the elements of the Champion as one being, that is, the makeup of the Agent of Change that is required to push the Multiverse into the new cycle:

The Champion
The Companion
The Lover
The Weapon
The Adversary

In some cases, one element is stronger or more dominant than the others.

...

This seems very reminiscent of the cast in commedia dell' arte... ? Which I think Mike made explicit in The Condition of Muzak.

Ciao,
Ant

Some photos I took, today:

I must admit, it was Jerry Cornelius that sprung to mind. :)

[RitaMaria]

It's like looking at the multiverse itself: it may drive you insane if you think about it too much ;)
Jeff

:D Yes! And this is one of the most interesting point in MIkeآ´s works. All this complexity - what permits a plenty of readings and rereadings - makes the Multiverse very attractive to us, readers. I can imagine 100 years in future, others readers will be still discuss features of EC. And, like us, they will be enjoy themself with Mikeآ´s books.
Rita.

P.S. Due to connections problems I was absent. I am using a cybercafe connection. I hope to resolve this problem soon.

[RitaMaria]

He's Jerry Cornelius but he's also my real-life friend Jerry Goldstein...
Jerry appears in The Cardinal and the Corpse, the movie by Sinclair and Petit which also features Alan Moore and me... Yes, you probably would go mad if you tried to make every connection I've made over the years.
It could be that I'm already totally barmy or that I've managed to keep sane by offloading this stuff into books and pictures... :D

Hum... Unhappily, I do not know "The Cardinal and the Corpse", Mike. But it seems to me very interesting: Jerry Cornelius, you and Alan Moore. Please, is this film availiable in internacional market?
Are you Mooreآ´s friend, arenآ´t you? I wonder how it would be a story of the EC written by you and Moore....
Ah, I have read Jerry Cornelius is one of influences to Watchmen.
Rita.

[RitaMaria]

I have always seen the elements of the Champion as one being, that is, the makeup of the Agent of Change that is required to push the Multiverse into the new cycle:

The Champion
The Companion
The Lover
The Weapon
The Adversary

In some cases, one element is stronger or more dominant than the others.

For example, the Lover in Elric's incarnation was weak, the Companion skilled, and the Weapon extremely powerful. However, in Jerry Cornelius' incarnation, the Weapon is very weak by comparison (needlegun), the Lover is nearly dead, and the Companion, Una Persson, is powerful (and alternates between Jerry and Una who actually is the Companion and who is the Champion at what point). Corum's weapon is not magical, but the demon artifacts that are grafted to him are, thus the Weapon is not a conventional handheld device, but something that is a part and yet not a part of the Champion.

So, when we see Jhary a Conel show up as Corum's Companion, the spectrum of probabilities for combination is carried one place further but the fabric is intact.

Of course, I could be totally full of crap, too.

((oops, didn't mean to post after MM on this - just took me that long))

A curious viewpoint and it seems to me valid and logical when we look back at Mikeآ´s works. The EC is a very fascinating concept specially due to its amplitude because it permits, virtually, uncountless readings about these stories.
If you look carefully you can understand the Mikeآ´s Multiverse is a concept which can easily to contains any other fictional universe in it.
For this reason crossovers between the EC and other characters of others fictional universes is possible, as it occurred years ago when Elric met Conan.
Rita.

[RitaMaria]

I have always seen the elements of the Champion as one being, that is, the makeup of the Agent of Change that is required to push the Multiverse into the new cycle:

The Champion
The Companion
The Lover
The Weapon
The Adversary

In some cases, one element is stronger or more dominant than the others.

For example, the Lover in Elric's incarnation was weak, the Companion skilled, and the Weapon extremely powerful. However, in Jerry Cornelius' incarnation, the Weapon is very weak by comparison (needlegun), the Lover is nearly dead, and the Companion, Una Persson, is powerful (and alternates between Jerry and Una who actually is the Companion and who is the Champion at what point). Corum's weapon is not magical, but the demon artifacts that are grafted to him are, thus the Weapon is not a conventional handheld device, but something that is a part and yet not a part of the Champion.

So, when we see Jhary a Conel show up as Corum's Companion, the spectrum of probabilities for combination is carried one place further but the fabric is intact.

Of course, I could be totally full of crap, too.

((oops, didn't mean to post after MM on this - just took me that long))

A curious viewpoint and it seems to me valid and logical when we look back at Mikeآ´s works. The EC is a very fascinating concept specially due to its amplitude because it permits, virtually, uncountless readings about this storys.
If you look carefully you can understand the Mikeآ´s Multiverse is a concept which can easily to contains any other fictional universe in it.
For this reason crossovers between the EC and other characters of others fictional universes is possible, as it occurred years ago when Elric met Conan.
Rita.

[Jeremiah]

Ant[/quote]
I'm not at all familiar with the commedia dell' arte, except from Mike's books, but what Suilebhain suggests certainly seems to strike a resonance with most of the EC stories.[/quote]

Quick guide to the commedia, for those of you unlucky enough never to have studied under John Harris at Hull...

The commedia dell'arte (Comedy of Skill, for non Italian speakers) was a form of drama born in pre-renaissance Italy. Rather than particular plays being written as we know them today, Commedia companies would borrow scenarios from ancient greek and roman drama, and improvise around them - the basic plot outline was written on the back of the scenery for easy reference (Scenario, literally translated, means "thing on the scenery")

Actors would play the same character for pretty much their entire career, and would compile a book of notes of funny gags, songs, ideas which they would work into the plays however the mood and popular opinon took them. Whatever the play and situation, the actors would crop up playing the same characters, occasionally with different names (see the Marx Brothers, Abbott and Costello, the Carry On films for modern reflections of this idea).

Famous Commedia characters include Harlequin, Columbine, Pantalone, Pierrot, Scaramouche, Zani, Punchinello (shortened to Punch in England) and more.

Commedia companies toured throughout Europe at its height, and it is likely that Shakespeare saw them. Indeed, the Tempest, and large chunks of A Midsummer Night's Dream, bear such striking resemblences to known Commedia scenarios, that is seems inevitable that the Bard of Avon borrowed them, as they in turn had been borrowed from the greeks.

There's shed loads more if anyone is interested. Oh, and it gets a big mention in The Vampire Lestat.

Jeremiah