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Hawkmoon the end ?

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  • Hawkmoon the end ?

    I just finished the last of the Castle Brass books. This pretty much seems like its the end of the multiverse as we know it. THe champions have served their part, the gods are destroyed, the balance is shattered. We're on our own, for good and for ill.

    Is this the "end" then ? The final point that it all comes to, in terms of the cosmology of chaos, the champion etc ?

  • #2
    There are at least two other 'alternate' endings to the EC saga: The War Amongst the Angels (the final volume of the 'Second Ether' trilogy*) and The White Wolf's Son (the final volume from the 'Dreamquest Trilogy'**), which can be read as well.

    *Blood/Fabulous Harbours/TWAtA
    **The Dreamthief's Daughter/The Skrayling Tree/TWWS
    Last edited by David Mosley; 09-28-2007, 05:50 AM.
    _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
    _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
    _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
    _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

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    • #3
      Whatever the factual end, the philosophical end seems the same : it is up to man or sentients being to build their destiny without gods or devils ......

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      • #5
        Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
        There are at least five cycles of the multiverse recorded in the sequence.
        Now you've got me wondering, Mike!

        Let's see...
        You see, it's... it's no good, Montag. We've all got to be alike. The only way to be happy is for everyone to be made equal.

        -:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-

        Image Hive :-: Wikiverse :-: Media Hive

        :-: Onsite Offerings :-:


        "I am an observer of life, a non-participant who takes no sides. I am in the regimented society, but not of it." Moondog, 1964

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        • #6
          My personal favourite, is the end of the cycle in Elric's world. It had great effect upon me as it matched my state of mind at the time!

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          • #8
            Oh, bugger me, yes.

            As if it wasn't complicated enough already.
            Last edited by Governor of Rowe Island; 07-29-2006, 04:07 PM.
            You see, it's... it's no good, Montag. We've all got to be alike. The only way to be happy is for everyone to be made equal.

            -:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-

            Image Hive :-: Wikiverse :-: Media Hive

            :-: Onsite Offerings :-:


            "I am an observer of life, a non-participant who takes no sides. I am in the regimented society, but not of it." Moondog, 1964

            Comment


            • #9
              Of course, beginnings and endings don't really mean that much when you consider that all of us are living in an infinite moment of infinite possibility and scale...

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              • #10
                so with time being somewhat of a non-entity, I gather there could easily be other ends (and beginnings) to the multiverse, before and after the events of the Castle Brass books ?

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                • #11
                  An infinite number of them. Of course that is simply my position and interpretation...

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                  • #12
                    Mike,


                    Could you please elaborate more on a Hawkmoon question?


                    From: WorldCon '97: Michael Moorcock
                    August 31, 1997


                    http://www.scifi.com/transcripts/wor...lMoorcock.html



                    shred: <forky> to <shred>: do u have a least favorite incarnation of the EC

                    MichaelMoorcock: Hawkmoon. Never did see him as real.

                    1) What did you mean,at the time,as real?


                    2) Do you mean that you don't see any of yourself in the character?


                    Least favourite, sounds like an odd worderd question to me. I guess I don't get the question, so I don't understand the answer.

                    It does lead me to ask this:


                    3) Have you ever created a character that you ended up not liking at all?


                    4) Do you also feel the Hawkmoon stories are your least favourite of the Eternal Champion novels?/or Is it only the character that you feel is less real than others?


                    In my opinion, I feel that Dorian Hawkmoon could be a very real person, his traits,emotions and his doubts in life. I mean, I could see a real person who would make the same decisions and perform the same actions. Feel the same passion and love for a woman. Feel the same despair over a loss?

                    I was wondering what a psychologist would make of his thinking if Dorian was, in fact, a real person.

                    I have always loved the Hawkmoon books, so when I read that years ago, before I joined the MWM and got more insight,before talking to you, I kinda felt confused with the statement, I still kinda do feel strange about it, so I figured that I would come right out and ask about it even though I read some posts like it that somewhat answered my questions.


                    I am sorry to make such a multi-part question, but it is one that is important to me and I have been meaning to discuss it, so I finally got around to it. hahaha

                    Your books are so well written that I do not often come up with questions about the story iteslf, so I ask these things that are on my mind. When I re-read the books, I might have a couple things to bring up, since some I read about a decade ago,haha. They are all superb.


                    Thanks,Mike!


                    -Lemec
                    Last edited by lemec; 08-06-2006, 12:33 PM.

                    "With a deep, not-unhappy sigh, Elric prepared to do battle with an army." (Red Pearls)
                    - Michael Moorcock

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                    • #13
                      These characters tend to be a reflection of the emotions and ideas I had while writing them. Landscapes tend to reflect what's going on in their heads. As I said about Jerry Cornelius, who was more consciously like this, he has no 'inner life' because all his inner life is on the outside. It's a form of pathetic fallacy, I suppose, deliberately used and borrowed from the Brontes, from the Gothic and from Surrealism -- when the character is in turmoil an incredible storm blows up. When confused, the landscape itself begins to warp and change. What we call the 'inner landscape' is turned inside out. For me Hawkmoon didn't seem as successful a character of this kind, but that's not to say I don't imagine him as a real person. As you'll see from The White Wolf's Son, he has his conflicts and problems and if you like is more credible than some of the more wildly imagined characters like Elric. So when asked who my 'favourite' or 'least favourite' characters in fantasy I usually answer Elric for favourite and Hawkmoon for least favourite. I always felt I could have done more with him, but the particular story restrictions I set myself in that series didn't allow me to do it. That said, I know that Hawkmoon remains many peoples' favourite character. I have always argued that once the reader has bought the book then that book is theirs in every sense -- how they percieve the characters, the meanings behind the symbolism, the intention of the author. So what I have to say once you 'own' that book, in the sense I mean, is not as important as what you have to say about it. I have recently reviewed a book by an author both Linda and I like very much. I think it's his best. She thinks it's his worst. It's not something I can argue about, since the act of reading (being part of an audience or whatever) is subjective. However much academics attempt to make that action seem objective, it simply isn't. My enjoyment of Proust isn't the same as someone else's enjoyment of Proust and is radically different to the response of someone who doesn't like Proust at all, just as I find it very hard to get on with Joyce while recognising his enormous talent. In short, I'm not an authority, even on my own books.
                      I can tell you my intention, my feelings about characters and so on, but in the end it's your response that's most important.
                      I don't think I've ever created a main character I ended up not liking at all, even Pyat. I don't much like Frank Cornelius, Bishop Beesley or Miss Brunner. I don't like Theleb K'aarnas. I don't like a lot of the Dark Empire characters like Meliadus. A lot depends on the nature of the book. A supernatural romance (or whatever you prefer to call it) often has clear villains and heroes and most of mine do, apart from the Elric stories. This could be why I like Elric best. A literary novels, like Mother London, doesn't have clear villains and heroes, though there are characters I like less than others. Much depends on the context, as I'm always saying. Context defines.
                      I'm not saying all of the above to 'ground' your questions. If you want me to expand on my thoughts or answer a question you feel I haven't answered, then just let me know!

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                      • #14
                        For me things were fluid. Elric when I was single, Hawkmoon as a family man. I could identify with Hawkmoon then.

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                        • #15
                          Wow! That is a delightful response!


                          Thanks,Mike!


                          I guess, I might read my own personal experiences and feelings into the characters and stories as well.


                          That does answer my questions and I find that part about the 'inner landscape' very fascinating. I did not fully see that before,maybe unconsciously, but that really does add many elements that I missed the first time around,haha. It definitely makes me think.

                          Also, that is really cool, that the reader's interpretation is important.


                          Excellent!



                          -Lemec

                          "With a deep, not-unhappy sigh, Elric prepared to do battle with an army." (Red Pearls)
                          - Michael Moorcock

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