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Moonglum and Elric were lovers?

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  • Heiron
    Pawn of multiverse
    • Jun 2006
    • 374

    #31
    I was always thinking the essence of Stormbringer to be a female one.Maybe an androgynous would be a better word but perhaps the Greek translation meesed things up as the word "Stormbringer" was translated as "Καταιγίδα" which means "Storm" and is a female word in Greek.
    Now,Elric could be a bisexual and it wouldn't be weird.He was the emperror of Melnibone...His fiance was a relative,Yirkoon was planning to marry his own sister,etc,etc...
    But since Mike never mentions anything that indicates that I never thought of it.If there is no reference,no clue,then there is no hypothesis,no assumption.On that I am with Newton and his motto "Hypotheses non fingo"-or something like that...my Latin sucks.
    Moonglum...he seems a guy that really likes women and is usually distant towards men.
    If Mike wanted he could make Elric obviously bisexual,he has no problem with such things.Since he didn't,either he isn't or it is not worth mentioning.

    Comment

    • Michael Moorcock
      Site Host
      • Dec 2003
      • 14278

      #32
      Yep. It isn't as if my other work is short of bisexual characters!
      Is that thread title a deliberate ref to Frankie and Johnny, I wonder ?

      Elric and Moonglum were lovers,
      Lordy how those two could ride
      On dragons (they claimed were their brothers)
      With swords they confused with their brides.
      'You is my men -- now let's do it again...'

      OK. OK. I'm off back to the Moorcock Inn where I think they've lifted the bar on me... Might now sneak in, since I had a shave.

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      Comment

      • Doc
        Doc
        Eternal Champion
        • Jan 2004
        • 3630

        #33
        I know you mentioned Jerry, but I have to add...

        It seems to me that anyone who has read Brothel in Rosenstrasse would know that you put characters' sexuality out there in the open. After you write (almost poetically) about doing cocaine off various parts of a teenage prostitute's body while having sex with multiple partners in a decadent whorehouse, how could anyone accuse you of burying the sexuality in your stories?

        Not to mention Glory's pleasure pits...

        Comment

        • David Mosley
          Eternal Administrator
          • Jul 2004
          • 11823

          #34
          Originally posted by Heiron
          I was always thinking the essence of Stormbringer to be a female one.
          In the story 'Caravan of Forgotten Dreams' (neé 'The Flamebringers') Elric explicitly identifies Stormbringer as being female:

          He cried: ‘Stormbringer! Sister Stormbringer, unite with your brother! Come, sweet runeblade, come hell-forged kinslayer, your master needs thee…’
          (Emphasis mine.)
          _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
          _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
          _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
          _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

          Comment

          • Heiron
            Pawn of multiverse
            • Jun 2006
            • 374

            #35
            Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
            Yep. It isn't as if my other work is short of bisexual characters!
            My point exactly,Mike.

            Comment

            • HellHound
              Working The Chaos Clock
              • Dec 2003
              • 69

              #36
              no no no no no no no
              this aint hobbit land.

              Although the Melniboneans are advance in sex and violence,
              that thought never crossed my mind while reading any of the books.
              (i dont remember elric and moonglum making out in the vanishing tower
              or the line
              ''quick, here come the hordes of chaos, give me a reach around'')

              The whole idea seems ludicrious

              i can see it now... richard simmons as ''elric''
              weilding his pink and fuschia blade ''operasinger''
              sucking souls from the waist down.

              someone shoot me

              Last edited by HellHound; 07-30-2006, 03:21 PM.
              When it comes time to die
              Sing your death song
              and die like a warrior.

              http://www.aliensurgeon.com

              Comment

              • Rothgo
                Champion of the Unbalanced
                • Aug 2006
                • 6629

                #37
                Originally posted by David Mosley View Post
                In the story 'Caravan of Forgotten Dreams' (neé 'The Flamebringers') Elric explicitly identifies Stormbringer as being female:

                He cried: ‘Stormbringer! Sister Stormbringer, unite with your brother! Come, sweet runeblade, come hell-forged kinslayer, your master needs thee…’
                But in proper multi-identity confusion and jungian duality, Elric also declares Stormbringer to be male:
                Just prior to his final dual with Yrkoon in The Dreaming City, Elric says
                "I see you have recovered Mournblade - well, test its powers against its brother [Stormbringer] if you dare."

                Comment

                • Papi
                  Champion of the Balance
                  • Oct 2007
                  • 1143

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Heiron View Post
                  I was always thinking the essence of Stormbringer to be a female one.Maybe an androgynous would be a better word but perhaps the Greek translation meesed things up as the word "Stormbringer" was translated as "Καταιγίδα" which means "Storm" and is a female word in Greek.
                  It is more powerful in french, because :
                  Stormbringer is a sword, and in Molière's tong, a sword is a female word.
                  So, after killed Elric, the black sword said : "Adieu mon ami, j'étais mille fois plus mauvaise que toi."

                  In french langage, Stormbringer speak like a woman.

                  Sorry for my english and french's governement.
                  Papi

                  Comment

                  • Lorelei
                    Resident Mermaid out of Water
                    • Sep 2007
                    • 342

                    #39
                    Just goes to show you like so much in life that art is subjective and open to interpretation. I used to love sitting in the gallery where my work was on display and listen to the comments people would make not knowing I was the artist. Same thing goes with my music. I have heard some crazy interpretations of my lyrics even on songs I thought were pretty straight forward!
                    "Run to the hills! Run for your life!" But first; nap!sigpic

                    Comment

                    • Mespheber
                      Guardian of the Grail
                      • Jun 2006
                      • 411

                      #40
                      Symbolically, any sword, knife, wand, stick, tube, gun well anything with a penetration or phallic from can be seen as a penis. On this level, horror movies transform the sexual acts in violence sequences. Actually, replace porn sequences of a movie with stabbing ones, there won't be much changes since the script are often fuckin' low.

                      About Moonglum and Elric, well, why not? It's not writen, but it's a heroic fantasy world so why these characters should submit to our moral considerations? Why not a ménage à trois with Zarozinia?

                      On this way, the friendship of Alexander and Hephaistion in Oliver Stone's movie is quiet explicit...

                      EDIT:
                      Originally posted by Papi View Post
                      Originally posted by Heiron View Post
                      I was always thinking the essence of Stormbringer to be a female one.Maybe an androgynous would be a better word but perhaps the Greek translation meesed things up as the word "Stormbringer" was translated as "Καταιγίδα" which means "Storm" and is a female word in Greek.
                      It is more powerful in french, because :
                      Stormbringer is a sword, and in Molière's tong, a sword is a female word.
                      So, after killed Elric, the black sword said : "Adieu mon ami, j'étais mille fois plus mauvaise que toi."

                      In french langage, Stormbringer speak like a woman.

                      Sorry for my english and french's governement.
                      Err... There are many female words in french to define a penis: bite, verge, biroute, queue...
                      Last edited by Mespheber; 07-30-2010, 12:38 AM.
                      Free the West Memphis Three

                      Comment

                      • David Mosley
                        Eternal Administrator
                        • Jul 2004
                        • 11823

                        #41
                        Originally posted by Mespheber View Post
                        About Moonglum and Elric, well, why not? It's not writen, but it's a heroic fantasy world so why these characters should submit to our moral considerations? Why not a ménage à trois with Zarozinia?
                        There's a rare double entendre (another French word) from Mike in 'Kings in Darkness' that I couldn't let pass without comment in the Wikiverse article for that story:

                        "[Elric] seized [Zarozinia] greedily, kissed her with a deeper need than that of passion. For the first time, Cymoril of Imrryr was forgotten as they dropped to the soft turf, oblivious of Moonglum who polished away at his curved sword with wry jealousy."
                        _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                        _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                        _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                        _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

                        Comment

                        • Rothgo
                          Champion of the Unbalanced
                          • Aug 2006
                          • 6629

                          #42
                          It gets worse of course: Ravenbrand is Mournblade by another name, which Gaynor refers to as "the Black Sword's sister" (WWS p310), a definition Elric re-enforces later with "sister to my own Stormbringer". But already we've seen above that Mournblade is referred to as male (via the term brother), and ultimately that Stormbringer and Mournblade are both the same entity (TQfT) - which can only mean Stormbringer, in whatever guise, is either both male and female or that neither term is really ever correct.

                          Comment

                          • Papi
                            Champion of the Balance
                            • Oct 2007
                            • 1143

                            #43
                            Originally posted by Mespheber View Post
                            Err... There are many female words in french to define a penis: bite, verge, biroute, queue...
                            Absolutly, the french langage is not logical !
                            Papi

                            Comment

                            • Mespheber
                              Guardian of the Grail
                              • Jun 2006
                              • 411

                              #44
                              Well, if french had any logic, why would have we needed Descartes?

                              A friend of mine was even more insane the day he imagined Elric was a zoophile, or let's say a dracophile...

                              Free the West Memphis Three

                              Comment

                              • Reinart der Fuchs
                                gefangener fuchs
                                • May 2006
                                • 4695

                                #45
                                Elric was a dracosexual? Say no more!
                                Infinite complexity according to simple rules.

                                Comment

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