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Moonglum and Elric were lovers?

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  • Moonglum and Elric were lovers?

    I just stumbled upon this conversation via the old Dejanews archive:

    http://groups.google.com/group/rec.g...c6133f356c9340
    Infinite complexity according to simple rules.

  • #2
    *sigh* why do people have to make something out of nothing. Sure Moonglum and Elric had love for each other but they weren't lovers.where do they get the nerve

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    • #3
      Sometimes a soul-sucking, black-bladed runesword is just a soul-sucking, black-bladed runesword. ;)
      _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
      _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
      _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
      _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by David Mosley
        Sometimes a soul-sucking, black-bladed runesword is just a soul-sucking, black-bladed runesword. ;)

        I agree!


        Interpretations of a story are one thing, outright fabrication on part of the reader, is another thing.


        besides, MM does not need to infer anything,in my opinion, because he will plain out tell you if the chracters are lovers or not.

        "With a deep, not-unhappy sigh, Elric prepared to do battle with an army." (Red Pearls)
        - Michael Moorcock

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        • #5
          Lemec is right Mike would have made it outrightly knowledgeable for the reader if the Eternal Champion and his Companion had intimate relationships during a story. For one example,there was very little reservation in Mikes accounts of Bishop Beesly in the Cornelius chronicles. I asked Mike what he envisioned "KWLL" would look like late one night. Mike replied "Why he is as YOU see him voilodian." Wow...
          If a homosexual male sees all men as the same, that is his freedom of interpretation. We also have the right to our freedom of interpretation.
          And mine is that Elric was a womanizer.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by David Mosley
            Sometimes a soul-sucking, black-bladed runesword is just a soul-sucking, black-bladed runesword. ;)
            "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
            --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

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            • #7
              so, in the spirit of modern film and book interpretation, is Stormbringer then a penis reference ?

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              • #8
                [quote=lemec] I agree!


                Interpretations of a story are one thing, outright fabrication on part of the reader, is another thing.
                quote]

                I agree too, but in academic and critical circles it's perfectly acceptable to construct a gay reading of a story. It's called "queering" the text.
                "Jerry Cornelius was based, for instance, on a young man I used to see around Notting Hill where there was also a greengrocer called Cornelius of London."

                --Michael Moorcock

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by runequester
                  so, in the spirit of modern film and book interpretation, is Stormbringer then a penis reference ?
                  If that's how you choose to read it, then yes.

                  Once the text is in the hands of a reader, the only interpretive authority that really remains is the reader, not the author. After all, authorial intention may not match the actual text, and time may erode the meaning of certain phrases, and replace them with new ones. Thus, the text, and how I interpret it, is my business. If I read the Elric books and caught a queer sub-text, then not even Mike could change my mind if my position was supported by the text. He'd have to revise the text to change my opinion - and, even then, the original text would still remain.

                  However, in this case, I'm not convinced. I have no issue with Elric being bisexual, but that does not mean that he and Moonglum were lovers.

                  That said, I've not read the Elric books with that thought in mind. If I did, I may be able to construct a fairly solid foundation for the claim, I don't know. Next time I read the books, I'll keep an open mind.

                  Hapimeses.com

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jerry Cornelius
                    Originally posted by lemec
                    I agree!


                    Interpretations of a story are one thing, outright fabrication on part of the reader, is another thing.
                    I agree too, but in academic and critical circles it's perfectly acceptable to construct a gay reading of a story. It's called "queering" the text.
                    I think it's important to note that if one were "queering" the text, the process would still require the text to support the possibility. Thus, it would not be "outright fabrication" at all, just another interpretation of the text.

                    That said, what one person may read into a text certainly may not match what others may read into it, expecially if one considers the multi-faceted nature of the english language and the different methods of interpreting metaphor. However, a detailed and explicit explanation of a reading can bridge that gap, even if it won't necessarily convince.
                    Hapimeses.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hapimeses
                      I think it's important to note that if one were "queering" the text, the process would still require the text to support the possibility. Thus, it would not be "outright fabrication" at all, just another interpretation of the text.

                      That said, what one person may read into a text certainly may not match what others may read into it, expecially if one considers the multi-faceted nature of the english language and the different methods of interpreting metaphor. However, a detailed and explicit explanation of a reading can bridge that gap, even if it won't necessarily convince.

                      I might be willing to concede your point, but only on works of fiction.


                      In my opinion, there is no "reading between the lines" when, for instance, we are discussing a history book or biography. We can say, we don't know the facts, but we are not allowed to interpret the facts.


                      (This discussion is turnng into the debate over Archie Comics in the movie "Chasing Amy." )

                      "With a deep, not-unhappy sigh, Elric prepared to do battle with an army." (Red Pearls)
                      - Michael Moorcock

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Having read again recently the books, for me there is no openings to an Elric bisexual ...........

                        Each time he loves or comes near love, it is with a woman and the relationship with Moonglum is not ambiguous.

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                        • #13
                          Morgan Wrote
                          Having read again recently the books, for me there is no openings to an Elric bisexual ...........
                          Each time he loves or comes near love, it is with a woman and the relationship with Moonglum is not ambiguous.
                          Correctomundo Morgan.

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                          • #14
                            Oh come on people. Not this type of issue again. if you want them to be gay then they will be.
                            I really wonder if people who believe such things have really close friends.

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                            • #15
                              I feel sure Mike is quietly chortling up his sleeve at this thread.

                              "Oh the poor deluded fools."
                              _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                              _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                              _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                              _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

                              Comment

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