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Wondering about dedication in Revenge of the Rose, &c.

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  • Wondering about dedication in Revenge of the Rose, &c.

    Dear Mr. Moorcock,

    I don't know if you'll remember me or not. I haven't posted in a long time; I've had a lot of things going on. Hope you and Linda have been keeping well.

    I'm reading The Revenge of the Rose. I'm about half way through and enjoying it very much. One of the dedications in the front is "For Johnny and Edgar Winter" so I was wondering if they have read your work and, if so, what they thought? I was surprised to see that in the front of the book because I had the impression you weren't too fond of them for some reason. I read somewhere that they are Scientologists. Personally, I don't like Scientology. I tried to read Dianetics, but it was like trying to breathe with one's head submerged in a vat of molasses: thick, suffocating, and disorienting. What really put me off though were the sexist comments about women, implying that women are somehow dirty and have to try harder to redeem themselves than men or some such bullshit. I read just enough of it to piss me off, then I chucked the book aside.

    I visited the Nightshade site; there doesn't seem to be much activity there. I was going to post there, but wasn't sure if it's still active.

    I'm going to go read some more of the posts here. This new site is very well done!

    Marie-Bernadette
    WWED -- What Would Elric Do?

  • #2
    You know I wondered about the same thing. I was just looking at the book the other day for the first time in years, and thought that it was odd. I wonder if he was being ironic?

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi, Marie-Bernadette. Long time no see here!
      Yes, I'd dedicated the book to the Winters brothers BEFORE they tried to sue a friend of mine (Joe Landsdale) for an homage he paid to them by putting them into a story he did as demons! They are indeed scientologists and I really despise scientology, as much as I despise all quasi-religions which in my view prey upon people with problems and in fact make life harder for them by offering them a specialised vocabulary which rather than helping them handle the world only makes it possible for them to think in self-referential terms. A never-ending cycle, which makes a few scientologists rich and most of the others pretty poor. I've disliked them since they began (as Dianetics) and have published several remarks about them in various places. They are also very powerful and do all they can to silence free speech about them (cf John Sladek's book which they succeeded in having censored).

      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
      The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
      Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
      The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
      Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

      Comment


      • #4
        Xenu.net

        Here is a great scientology web site dedicated to debunking scientology and L. Ron Hubbard.

        Good stuff!

        http://www.xenu.net
        When they had advanced together to meet on common
        ground, then there was the clash of shields, of spears
        and the fury of men cased in bronze; bossed shields met
        each other and the din rose loud. Then there were
        mingled the groaning and the crowing of men killed and
        killing, and the ground ran with blood.

        Homer, The Illiad

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow, thats an interesting site. Thanks for the link.

          Comment


          • #6
            Harlan Ellison has an interesting story about Scientology. Apparently Ron made it up because he didn't make enough money writing sci-fi.

            Comment


            • #7
              Yeah, I heard he challenged someone (Ellison?) that he could invent a religion and people would follow it.

              He wins!
              When they had advanced together to meet on common
              ground, then there was the clash of shields, of spears
              and the fury of men cased in bronze; bossed shields met
              each other and the din rose loud. Then there were
              mingled the groaning and the crowing of men killed and
              killing, and the ground ran with blood.

              Homer, The Illiad

              Comment


              • #8
                Ya know thats what i was thinking yesterday. I bet he just decided one day to see if he invented a religion, if people would actually follow it. Im not really that familiar with the beliefs of scientology, and im not going to hate someone because of their faith, but from what i heard it sounds VERY odd.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Maybe that's how all religions started!


                  "Hey Jesus, whatcha doin?"

                  "Ahh, nothing. Not much to do around here. Plus, I'm broke."

                  "Me too. Man those priests over there seem to have it made, but it's so hard nowadays to get in. I mean, which temple, which god, it's all very confusing. The preists hoard their money anyway, so even if we got into one, we'd probably still be broke. I hear the temple of Bacchus is fun and Venus' is a big party..."

                  "Hey wait a minute, why join their's? There are new gods popping up all the time, why not make our own? It's gotta be better than this carpentry gig."

                  "Yeah, but what kind of god could we invent? It looks like the priests have the market pretty much cornered. There's nothing left for a "god" to be in charge of."

                  "How about a god over all the other gods? He could be the ultimate god, king of every god."

                  "We got one of those, he's called Jupiter."

                  "Yeah but that's the roman name, it was Zues before that. They change gods all the time. We need to make one that is always around and has always been around, you know what I mean? Then our temple will be more important, because it is dedicated to the god that created all the others! The one true god!"

                  "It sounds good, but I think you might make some people pretty mad at you. Plus, how will you convince people about your god?"

                  "Hmmm, I know, I could say I was the son of this god. I mean, who could say I was wrong? I'll travel around to places where no one knows me, say I am this 'son of god' and see how many will believe me. Most of the hicks around these parts are so superstitous they'll probably give me money just to get me to leave them alone. I might even get some women!"

                  "Well, it's sounding better and better. I still think you might make some enemies in the temples, but then we can just go back to carpentry eh."

                  "Get my robe, it is time for this 'son of god' to do his 'work'."

                  "Ha, 'son of god'! Oh Jesus that kills me!"
                  When they had advanced together to meet on common
                  ground, then there was the clash of shields, of spears
                  and the fury of men cased in bronze; bossed shields met
                  each other and the din rose loud. Then there were
                  mingled the groaning and the crowing of men killed and
                  killing, and the ground ran with blood.

                  Homer, The Illiad

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Tommorow's installment:

                    Muhammad, broke and bored in Mecca...
                    When they had advanced together to meet on common
                    ground, then there was the clash of shields, of spears
                    and the fury of men cased in bronze; bossed shields met
                    each other and the din rose loud. Then there were
                    mingled the groaning and the crowing of men killed and
                    killing, and the ground ran with blood.

                    Homer, The Illiad

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      See heres the thing though, the Jews had 1000's of years of prophecy, that predicted that there even would be a messiah. L. Ron Hubbard just pulled stuff out of his Butt. Oh and another reason i dont like L. Ron Hubbard, 2 words, Battlefield Earth. WORST.MOVIE.EVER.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Maybe the Jews came up with "there will be a prophet in a few 1000 years -- because you are certainly not him" when Jesus came into town.

                        How many years ago did they make that prediction? Couple of thousand maybe? Hahaha,

                        Ahh, who knows. I was goofing around, writing off the top of my head, in between work. I could flesh it out a bit later!

                        Hey, maybe it was Karl Glogauer...
                        When they had advanced together to meet on common
                        ground, then there was the clash of shields, of spears
                        and the fury of men cased in bronze; bossed shields met
                        each other and the din rose loud. Then there were
                        mingled the groaning and the crowing of men killed and
                        killing, and the ground ran with blood.

                        Homer, The Illiad

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sensible guys - seeing as the end of the world. etc, was supposed to come 'within the lifetime' of everyone born when the Messiah comes along, makes sense to go 'Messiah, what Messiah, I didn't see no Messiah'.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The story Judy Merrill told was that a bunch of them were sitting around shortly after WW2, when they were demobbed and broke, and decided if you wanted to get really rich you'd invent a quasi-scientific religion, base it in California and sit back and rake in the profits. The rest of us, said Judy, laughed and forgot about it. Ron went off and did it... I've mentioned elsewhere that I met a dissatisfied scientologist who had an e-meter with him. He showed that it was actually an old US Army surplus lie-detector with the dial changed.

                            Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                            The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                            Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                            Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                            The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                            Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Maybe Mr. Hubbard came up with the "e-meter" when he was working on the Manhattan Project.... :roll: :lol:
                              When they had advanced together to meet on common
                              ground, then there was the clash of shields, of spears
                              and the fury of men cased in bronze; bossed shields met
                              each other and the din rose loud. Then there were
                              mingled the groaning and the crowing of men killed and
                              killing, and the ground ran with blood.

                              Homer, The Illiad

                              Comment

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