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What about the victims of Elrics sword Stormbringer

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  • VonWeiner
    Eternally Confused
    • Jan 2004
    • 950

    #31
    Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
    We also have to wonder, of course, to whom Elric's soul was ultimately in thrall to and if, therefore, it exists in Hell and if it exists whether or not it can be reincarnated AS ELRIC.
    I always felt that Elric and all the incarnations of the EC were a tool of that Hand that held The Balance. All the other 'gods' may think they control the EC but it is the Hand that places him/her here and there. It is the Hand that creates and destroys, for purposes beyond the "god's" understanding (whether they be the Grey Lords, the Lords of Law & Chaos, the Originators etc...).

    That was my interpretation anyway.
    When they had advanced together to meet on common
    ground, then there was the clash of shields, of spears
    and the fury of men cased in bronze; bossed shields met
    each other and the din rose loud. Then there were
    mingled the groaning and the crowing of men killed and
    killing, and the ground ran with blood.

    Homer, The Illiad

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    • Corum
      Denizen of Moo Uria
      • Jan 2004
      • 138

      #32
      Hey Calhoun...

      Its been a while, but I believe he was betrayed and stabbed by Medheb? a mabden woman and tribe leader to rid her world of demigods and sorcery after he saved them all and he falls into the sea near the ruins of Castle Erorn to the sound of the Daghdagh harp playing soft sad music.
      btw I think I have been there, if it is based on St Michael's mount in Cornwall. They observe his death in Tanelorn and when he appears there he takes his position in a line of EC statues. Oh well hopefully one day the box of soldiers will be opened again!

      Comment

      • lordmarioh
        Corsair of the Second Ether
        • Dec 2003
        • 92

        #33
        I got my books!!! I can't believe it!!! :D :D :D
        \\

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        • Guest's Avatar
          Anonymous

          #34
          Any news on the whole "Yyrkoon in Corum" front (mentioned earlier in this topic)?

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          • Elwher
            Honer of the Wikiverse
            • Feb 2004
            • 523

            #35
            though I think it would ruin the ending of the sequence if I were to 'resurrect' Elric or, indeed, Corum.
            In Elric stories by other hands, I'm thinking of The Queens of Deliria by Michael Butterworth and the story in The Pawns of Chaos by David Ferring set in the Konrad universe - Elric was resurrected. In the David Ferring story Elric is an old mad man ranting at the world that it wouldn't exist without him - so true at the meta level.

            As regards Corum, I always thought that the end of the second trilogy wasn't the end - we haven't seen the battle with Agak and Gagak from his perspective and who were his friends who carried him off the ship?
            Statistically 6 out of 7 dwarfs are not happy.

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            • Elwher
              Honer of the Wikiverse
              • Feb 2004
              • 523

              #36
              Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
              As people know, I don't read my own stuff, in the main and depend on remembering everything.
              Amazing that with so much material Mike can remember what's going on.

              One thing that confused me for a while was the revelation that Sepiriz and the Knight in Black and Yellow were the same being. I assumed that the Knight and the Warrior in Jet and Gold were the same - but Sepiriz and the Warrior appeared together in The Quest for Tanelorn at the conference in the shadow lands.

              Can two Guardians of the Balance be on the same plane at the same time?

              Any thoughts?
              Statistically 6 out of 7 dwarfs are not happy.

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              • Guest's Avatar
                Anonymous

                #37
                Yes, absolutely! In "A Sailor on the Seas of Fate" we find four incarnations of the EC together. Sometimes, it is even possible for one EC incarnation to exist in more than one 'brane' at a time. There are no 'codified' rules, as such, regarding the appearance of one, or more, incarnations on the same plane at the same time. There are, however, clues that have been placed throughout Mr. Moorcock's work which seem to explain how these things function. To gain a fuller understanding, one must read the entire Eternal Champion series. A few of MM's works which I found to be particularly insightful were; "The Time Dweller", the "Dancers at the End of Time" series, and "The Skrayling Tree". Elsewhere on this site, a reading list is posted and an 'order of reading chart' provided. I would suggest that interested parties read MM's works in the order they were written, start with "Sojan" and end with "The Skrayling Tree". That would provide the reader with an idea how these concepts evolved over time.

                Cheers,

                Malmorte-Guild of Temporal Adventurers wannabe

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                • Michael Moorcock
                  Site Host
                  • Dec 2003
                  • 14278

                  #38
                  While the Eternal Champion is, indeed, the servant of the Balance, which is why he fights sometimes for Law, sometimes for Chaos, it is possible for two of his incarnations to exist on the same plane. There's some suggestion, I'd say, that Gaynor the Damned was once a Knight of the Balance and possibly an incarnation of the Eternal Champion. Perhaps he's the Champion who refused his destiny ? The multiverse, as explained in MM's Multiverse graphic novel, consists of an infinite number of variations of the same universe -- each divided by infinitely tiny differences -- only at some distance apart are the worlds radically different. Champions can move across these worlds by a variety of means, usually in service of the Balance, which, it's fair to say, is probably the only constant throughout the multiverse.

                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                  The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                  Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                  The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                  Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

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                  • Elwher
                    Honer of the Wikiverse
                    • Feb 2004
                    • 523

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Malmorte
                    Yes, absolutely! In "A Sailor on the Seas of Fate" we find four incarnations of the EC together.
                    You misunderstand me, Malmorte, it's not the Champion I am referring to but Sepiriz, the Warrior and the Knight - they are not aspects of the Champion but seem to have the ability to exist together even though they are possibly the same character.
                    Statistically 6 out of 7 dwarfs are not happy.

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                    • dlackey
                      Defender of the Runestaff
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 378

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Elwher
                      Originally posted by Malmorte
                      Yes, absolutely! In "A Sailor on the Seas of Fate" we find four incarnations of the EC together.
                      You misunderstand me, Malmorte, it's not the Champion I am referring to but Sepiriz, the Warrior and the Knight - they are not aspects of the Champion but seem to have the ability to exist together even though they are possibly the same character.
                      '

                      I think such paradoxes can exist only under certain conditions (ie the conjunction of a million spheres), and then only for a limited amount of time.

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                      • Guest's Avatar
                        Anonymous

                        #41
                        Originally posted by Corum

                        Its been a while, but I believe he was betrayed and stabbed by Medheb? a mabden woman and tribe leader to rid her world of demigods and sorcery after he saved them all and he falls into the sea near the ruins of Castle Erorn to the sound of the Daghdagh harp playing soft sad music.
                        btw I think I have been there, if it is based on St Michael's mount in Cornwall. They observe his death in Tanelorn and when he appears there he takes his position in a line of EC statues. Oh well hopefully one day the box of soldiers will be opened again!
                        Thanks Corum, I have been there too, I went with a couple of mates who got really fed up with me going on and on about Corum, would love to live there!

                        Comment

                        • Michael Moorcock
                          Site Host
                          • Dec 2003
                          • 14278

                          #42
                          Cornwall is right. St Michael's Mount is right. Lwym-an-Eshe (I've forgotten I spelled it) is Lyonesse -- otherwise the Scilly Isles. The Corum books are, apart from the Hawkmoon books, the only ones I set in an actual visitable location! As I said in the introduction to one of the omnibuses -- blame a very wet holiday in Cornwall, with nothing to read but an English Cornish dictionary! I've also set some Jerry Cornelius scenes in Cornwall. My paternal grandmothers (I had two -- one a step)
                          came from the West Country and I spent some happy times there as a small boy, though most of my English roots are in the Yorkshire Dales where I'll be setting the opening of The White Wolf's Son. If you're planning to visit Yorkshire, I can probably give you a map! Come to think of it, it's much the same country as appears in the current movie Calendar Girls! A little further up, above Settle, which was our main
                          'large' town. Other scenes based on my own background in England can be found in The War Amongst the Angels. Just in case you're planning your next holiday... :) At this rate I should get a kickback from the Yorkshire Tourist Board....

                          Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                          The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                          Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                          Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                          The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                          Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                          Comment

                          • Tales from Tanelorn
                            Eternal Champion
                            • Dec 2003
                            • 2110

                            #43
                            Thanks for the clarification/confirmation Mike!

                            I am very, very nostalgic for Cornwall and N Devon. These places are where I always intended to move to when I get older! Polperro and Clovelly for example. One holiday we followed the coast road around the whole cornish peninsula, it was wonderful. I Also like Tenby and Camarthen in Wales as well as Usk and Hay on Wye, perhaps influenced by the film shadowlands, although I already liked the area. This is also where I always imagine the shire to be in LOTR.

                            I always wanted to live on the ocean coast which is another thing which drew me to Vancouver, although this is not the open Pacific Ocean. I think Mike mentions in one of his Elric books that this might be a longing to be near forces of Chaos! Yes, Dave Brock (Hawkwind) is in the right place as far as I am concerned although my wife says I am not ready to retire yet!!! So I guess I am still searching for my river...

                            Good Weekend to all - and pray (spare a thought) for the families who have suffered in Spain to the hands of those brutal murderers, surely the worst of possible sins in any religon.

                            Comment

                            • legion505
                              Nomad of the Time Streams
                              • Dec 2003
                              • 47

                              #44
                              this is one of the most interesting things about mr. moorcock's works.
                              i find myself speculating on certain events/topics/characters/etc. and add more depth to the ultimate experience.
                              here we all are, speculating on things that we almost believe to be a reality.
                              i really wish more people around here had read these books, i could spend hours hypothesizing! :D

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