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Research for Skrayling Tree

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  • Research for Skrayling Tree

    Mike,

    When you were doing research for The Skrayling Tree did you come across any information about a possible Late Viking expedition to middle America? The evidence is controversal--the most talked about piece of "evidence" being the Kennsington Runestone, found int he 1890's by a swedish-born farmer in west-central Minnesota--but the possibilities are intruiginig. I was curious, if you are aware of it, what your opinion is: do you think the various viking artifacts found in the upper mid-west and down the Mississippi are authentic and are evidence of a 14th century expedition to the central US?

    I am just curious largely because I'm from the Kennsington, MN area (I live in Alexandria, where the Runestone currently resides) so the tale has always been close to me. Also, I'm currently doing research on the story in an effort to write a novel based on the tale with elements of the fantastic.

    Thanks,

    EverKing
    "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
    --Thomas a Kempis

  • #2
    I have heard of this artifact and have just done a quick google to refresh my memory on it. (I just submit the search because there is so much about it.)
    I think Mike may have been more influenced by the Vinland lore (google here) than the Kensington Rune.
    I think the 14th century is a little late for Vikings, even Late Vikings. :)
    You see, it's... it's no good, Montag. We've all got to be alike. The only way to be happy is for everyone to be made equal.

    -:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-

    Image Hive :-: Wikiverse :-: Media Hive

    :-: Onsite Offerings :-:


    "I am an observer of life, a non-participant who takes no sides. I am in the regimented society, but not of it." Moondog, 1964

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    • #3
      Actually, the really interesting bit is that in the 1350's (I can't remember the exact year) the Swedish/Norwegian king, Magnus Ericsson ordered an expedition to Greenland to see what happened to colonies there with hopes that the expedition would also head toward Vinland. The expedition didn't return until two years after the KRS was supposedly written.

      I'm certain that the Vinland stories were his primary influence, I was just curious if he had read anything on the Runestone and what his opinion of it is.
      "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
      --Thomas a Kempis

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes, Vinland lore was what I knew about. I've seen a TV programme since which talked about the Kensington Runestone. Fascinating. I'd love it if more evidence turned up. The problem with this area is that so many people NEED, for their own sense of the past, for the Viking expeditions to be real that they've gone to great lengths to find or even provide evidence, but, of course, we can be pretty sure about the original Canadian colonies, these days.

        Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
        The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
        Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


        Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
        The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
        Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree completely about the NEED of people to believe the KRS. I would love it if more evidence turned up, but as it is remains, the truth remains elusive. Every year it seems new experts perform new studies on the stone and every year they come to a different conclusion. The most recent tests have been geologic tests, testing the degredation of various minerals on the stone surface and comparing that to the degradation of the same materials in the inscriptions, etc. Although last I heard the testing wasn't complete, it was leaning toward the KRS being an authentic relic.

          The biggest argument against it is very valid. The linguistic evidence supports that it is a more recent invention, although some have shown that it is possible for the language to be representative of actual Swedish speech at the time. Not to mention the matter of convenience or coincidence that a Swedish-born farmer who was trying to validate the presence of his people in the US at a time when Americans were pretty set in their own identity and didn't much care for immigrants finds a stone written in old Swedish runes that claims they were the first Europeans in the very same place where five centuries later waves of Scandinavian settlers choose to live.

          As for my thoughts on it, I'm open to either possibility.

          Here's another question: Does it really matter whether a Scandinavian expedition made it to MN or not in the 14th century? I mean, it would be an interested historical footnote, but I hardly think it would be earth-shattering.
          "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
          --Thomas a Kempis

          Comment


          • #6
            If you're interested in anomalous history then this is a claim that has risen to prominence of late.

            1421: The Year China Discovered The World

            A google search can also reveal a wealth of speculation including Celtic New Zealand!
            You see, it's... it's no good, Montag. We've all got to be alike. The only way to be happy is for everyone to be made equal.

            -:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-

            Image Hive :-: Wikiverse :-: Media Hive

            :-: Onsite Offerings :-:


            "I am an observer of life, a non-participant who takes no sides. I am in the regimented society, but not of it." Moondog, 1964

            Comment


            • #7
              I've seen that book. Haven't read it yet.

              What inspired me to bring up the KRS is that, as I said earlier, I live only a few miles from where it was found. Also, it's been on my mind alot lately because I'm starting research for a novel based on the possibilty that it is authentic.

              But thanks for links! Very interesting.
              "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
              --Thomas a Kempis

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by EverKing
                Mike,

                When you were doing research for The Skrayling Tree did you come across any information about a possible Late Viking expedition to middle America? The evidence is controversal--the most talked about piece of "evidence" being the Kennsington Runestone, found int he 1890's by a swedish-born farmer in west-central Minnesota--but the possibilities are intruiginig. I was curious, if you are aware of it, what your opinion is: do you think the various viking artifacts found in the upper mid-west and down the Mississippi are authentic and are evidence of a 14th century expedition to the central US?

                I am just curious largely because I'm from the Kennsington, MN area (I live in Alexandria, where the Runestone currently resides) so the tale has always been close to me. Also, I'm currently doing research on the story in an effort to write a novel based on the tale with elements of the fantastic.

                Thanks,

                EverKing
                I have a friend living in Wisconson that has an accurate account of his ancestory. Can't remember how far back. His last name is Mattson.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm familiar with the stone, but am inclined to go more on Viking accounts of discovering what turned out to be Canada (as it were) and the remains of settlements there, which gell with those accounts. I have no doubt that the Vikings did make it to N. America but that their colony failed, much as similar later European colonies didn't make it.

                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                  The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                  Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                  The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                  Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What puzzles me is the year 1350 AC. The Viking-age ended around year 900 AC when Denmark (Where I am from), Sweden and Norway were christened. There wouldn't be any runes after that.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Of course, you could argue for a race of Viking/Indians who had inherited runecraft... But that's stretching it even further than it's been stretched.

                      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                      The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                      Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                      The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                      Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Anders
                        What puzzles me is the year 1350 AC. The Viking-age ended around year 900 AC when Denmark (Where I am from), Sweden and Norway were christened. There wouldn't be any runes after that.
                        In my memory, some vikings did not convert and went away ....... and is not the end of viking era in 1066 ?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          1066 was the battle of Hastings. Hmm... I'm listening extensively to Pink Floyd's soundtrack for the film More these days. Maybe there's some viking spirit in that record too? Hey Berry why am I being 'thrown off the board' after having been logged in but remaining inactive for ten minutes?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There's also some interesting yatter about the Phonecians travelling as far as South America, and links between "Atlantean" (more Phonecian and Egyptian) creation and god-myths being intertwined in MesoAmerican mythology.

                            Can I say how much I hate Columbus Day? 1492 and sea of blue my arse! How very arrogant to believe such lies!

                            There are many sources of runic and other types of writing in places such as Georgia, as well as the northeast. Most do follow navigable waterways, but that only makes sense. Why walk when you have a perfectly good boat?

                            Also tons of evidence about the land-bridge across the Bering Sea, and as usual foul, random numbers of the age of such a bridge. I find it much more likely that a particularly harsh winter would create an ice bridge that would be used by people with a memory of a land bridge in the same area. All either idea takes to make it valid is moving a decimal point around a bit.

                            And what of the sudden disappearance of civilization in places like Mesa Verde? Why build a big huge protected city in the cliffs and then suddenly vanish? My guess would be disease first, war second. But the disease (epidemiology) model seems ignored by "historians". Seems reasonable to me that a heavy winter brought migrants from Russo-Siberia, after a long enough period for a new disease (say, oh, the Black Plague) to develop. One infected person, one dead mostly-isolated up on a cliff population. Even the bugs would die after a nice hot Arizona summer.

                            Miqque
                            ... just another sailor on the seas of Fate, dogpaddling desperately ...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              So where does the hookers come from Miqque?

                              Comment

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