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Official EC runes, Melniboné Lexicon like Tolkien's Tengwar

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  • Official EC runes, Melniboné Lexicon like Tolkien's Tengwar

    Hi all, I was just wondring wether there was a psudeo-official mapping of the runes that apper on the stormbringer replica, and while I'm at it...
    Vadhagh or Melnibonأ© Lexicon, 'cause I wrote down a tonne of Vadhagh words down and was wondring if it was like how Tolkien invented his own Elfish tounges for middle earth. Or was MR.M not that indepth (He would have needed a lot of time on his hands...)
    if my questions are founded is there like a Apendix in one of his books thatcovers this?
    thx.

  • #2
    We've had this discussion elsewhere on slightly different topics. While there's a map of Elric's world, I not only never went in for 'world building', I never liked most of the stuff that did. For me the landscapes reflect the moods of the characters and the character himself is all important. So while the runes do resemble those found in the symbolic language of alchemy, for instance, there isn't a lexicon. Now it's possible that some of the games books I haven't seen DO spend time on this sort of thing, but I have nothing to do with the company which makes and sells the games and am, in fact, somewhat at odds with them (though not necessarily individual scenario writers). My interest is wholly in telling stories. I spend as little time as possible on the peripherals. In fact that stuff tends to work against what I am trying to do in my books, which is almost the opposite of what Tolkien was trying to do. I won't go into any of the arguments I have with Tolkien here, since they have been done to death and I have no argument with those who enjoy Tolkien or prefer to read him and so on, but it just isn't in me to support paraphernalia which doesn't have a concentrated narrative usefulness. I tell stories on several levels, but the techniques I use are selected entirely in order to strengthen those narratives and not divert from them.

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    • #3
      All I want to say is thank you to MR. Moorcock for replying I knew he did reply himself but not to me! :D so thanks, but I belive that a mapping of the runes would help me imagine the runestaff and stormbringer better.

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      • #4
        OK. Well, check out the symbolic language of alchemy. That's the place you can find a lexicon which will probably work for you. :)

        Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
        The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
        Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


        Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
        The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
        Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

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        • #5
          Heh, funny. Every time I picture fantasy arcane runes, I 'see' some of the spurious alphabets invented for medeival 'grimoires'. And for some reason, I always pictured melnibonean writings and runes as resembling Samaritan "book script"...

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          • #6
            Snap!
            I found this image a while back and although it's really just a calendar, it has the feel of an ancient booke of magik.

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            • #7
              Dun wanna alarm, but that link seems a little under the weather. It's so poorly it's pulled the covers over his head and cannot be displayed...

              I got a link to a pic posting site if it helps...
              http://12.22.230.41/MicroTech/Hostin...U10-SLIMG.html

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
                OK. Well, check out the symbolic language of alchemy. That's the place you can find a lexicon which will probably work for you. :)
                There are many different sources for this, and it should be noted that not every alchemist used the same set of symbols. Variants abound, depending on the time period and author. Alchemical symbolism probably didn't find a coherent form until around the time of Eliphas Levi. Later influences including Blavatski, the Golden Dawn and later Crowley helped shape alchemic symbolism into what it is today.

                Ferrari, if you are interested in a such a symbolism, you could look into the Enochian system of John Dee. It is said it is a language of the Angels (which in terms of Moorcock's stories, would make it a language of the Second Ether). I've heard it compared to ancient ethiopian (Nubian?) as well.
                Yuki says, "Krimson used to be known as Kommando, but he rarely uses that name anymore. Sometimes he appears as Krimson Gray as well. Do not be confused, he still loves cats and bagels."

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                • #9
                  Thanks everybody, Enochian yes... I have heard of it, I just looked it up again so I remember which one it is. But I can't find the "symbolic language of alchemy" I googled it but nope. I found a picture of a inscription on wikapedia but it was just pictures of events and some Latin captions. Oh well...
                  If some one can post a picture that would be great.
                  But concerning my lexicon question ...
                  How did MR.M come up with the names was it a matter of "Lets see... Elric's Cousin... how about Irkren, no. Oh! Yeerken no... AH HAH! Yrkoon that sound pretty cool, Yrkoon oh yeah, I'm on a roll" or was it more trivial and systematic, frankly a lot of the names seem Russian, eg. Yrkoon just has a Russian vibe to me, Corum's dad Khlonskey, sounds like Stalin's advisory "Leon Trotsky" Cymoil to has a Russian vibe but then again I don’t speak Russian, or any Slavic language so what do I know?

                  sitting beside me here is a whole list of Vadhagh words and names that I found mentioned in 'Knight of swords' and that is why I quireied a Lexicon for I noticed all female Vadhagh names (excluding Lorim which must be a parody of Corum) end with a vowel so I wondered why whold there be consistancy, but I was mearly over analysing.
                  -Ferrari

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                  • #10
                    This is a bit random but it's the only place I've read enochian. Pick up a copy of the Satanic bible and in the back it has a complete set of the 9 Enochian keys and translations.
                    Regret achieves nothing. Regret breeds weakness. Regret is a cancer which attacks the body's vital organs and eventually destroys.

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                    • #11
                      Actually, Anton LaVey altered the Enochian keys in or to Satanify them. I've never cared much for LaVey, since his system of "Satanism" is basically piecemeal and plagiarism. I'll take a look around and see if I can find some decent sources of magickal texts. As for a proper alchemic alphabet, there really isn't one per se. There are different symbols, but not an actual alphabet. However there are other so-called magickal alphabets out there, theban (used by neo-witches and wiccans) as well as cyphers and codes used by masons and esoteric groups.
                      Yuki says, "Krimson used to be known as Kommando, but he rarely uses that name anymore. Sometimes he appears as Krimson Gray as well. Do not be confused, he still loves cats and bagels."

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                      • #12
                        Not a fan of Lavey either. didn't realise he'd altered them though.
                        Regret achieves nothing. Regret breeds weakness. Regret is a cancer which attacks the body's vital organs and eventually destroys.

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                        • #13
                          Ok, so far I have found a neat site on magickal alphabets here . Its an about.com site, so beware of the popups. However, it does have nice samples of the enochian, theban, runic, ogham, and "atlantean" (from the Disney movie) scripts. Even better, is that you can download fonts of each alphabet.

                          I found a good site on enochiana here. Its a tripod site, so more popups. But it does have the calls to the Aethyrs as well as a pronunciation guide.

                          I found some sites on alchemic symbols here and here. As well, About.com has an alchemic dictionary here.
                          Yuki says, "Krimson used to be known as Kommando, but he rarely uses that name anymore. Sometimes he appears as Krimson Gray as well. Do not be confused, he still loves cats and bagels."

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