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You guys noticed how "RPG" like Elric is?

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  • TheEighthSon
    replied
    Steve Jackson of Fighting Fantasy fame is a different Steve Jackson to the one who runs Steve Jackson games and created GURPS.
    You know what? You're right. I knew that, but I'd clear forgotten it until you mentioned. Hmm... Stems from the days of Fighting Fantasy where TWO DIFFERENT STEVE JACKSONS wrote the books. The 'main' one went off and founded Games Workshop, while the 'other' one did GURPS.

    Mr Jeremiah, sir, thank you so much for jogging my memory on that. It might not seem like much, but I do like to be complete on things.

    How could I have forgotten that??? (Apart from it being some several years since picking up a FF book, other than to move them from one dusty box to another up in the attic- yes, I still have the originals, well, some of them, the one's that didn't get mashed to bits in my childhood schoolbag or had coke spilled on them, or were 'borrowed' by friends and never returned... Ahem. I digress.)

    Ta. :D

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    You guys noticed how "RPG" like Elric is?

    Yay! My first post.

    I just dropped in to make a couple of quick points:

    Steve Jackson of Fighting Fantasy fame is a different Steve Jackson to the one who runs Steve Jackson games and created GURPS.

    Speaking of "Who ripped off who"

    1) Fritz Leiber's "Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser " books share some occasional and unusual similarities with the EC stuff. In more than one of the stories, Farhd and the Mouser are translated into another world, with some of the same memories, but with radically different backgrounds, and encounter evidence that they themselves were present in the same location, doing pretty much the same deeds."

    By the way, F&TGM, with their emphasis on looting, drinking, wenching and betraying each other (but only a little bit) to my mind most closely represent how my RPG groups have behaved over the years...and the anecdotal evidence I've gathered suggest others feel the same.

    2) Pratchett's early books rip off Leiber to a huge extent.

    3) Unseen University is arguably stolen from Tom Sharpe's Porterhouse Blue and Grantchester Grind novels. And you can go and read them, noting his descriptions of the Bursar and the Senior Wrangler, if you don't believe me!

    Hugs

    Jeremiah

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    championic scenarios.

    Originally posted by Ian
    Originally posted by MalcolmSheppard
    2) As for originality . . . meh. D&D has evolved into its own thing over time. Elric stories do have missions and such, but they aren't group centered. I've spoken with MM about how the group orientation of RPGs makes them a bit wierd to port EC stuff into (everybody would want to be the champion!). The assumed D&D setting is also much more of a Fantasy Europe than a Hyboria or Barsoom, though some new material (such as Eberron, the new campaign hardback) is changing this.
    Well, an idea my RPG group came up with:

    Say you have 4 players. One could be an incarnation of the Eternal Champion,
    the other 3 his/her companions. But, to not ruin the fun for all, have
    4 parallel scenarios, where the player controlling the aspect of the EC
    rotates (as a different incarnation). The scenarios can all be linked,
    but not directly so there is no foreknowledge. Then, the climax would
    be all 4 aspects of the EC joining for the final battle.

    That would work and have the right feel, no?

    Ian

    Moorcock's more recent work shows that all the folk of the multiverse have avatars in the various different levels of existence ('War Among The Angels').Scenariowise I looked at what happens in 'The Dreamthief's daughter' as a way of players being able to fuse with their avatars on different planes.I have used the parallel scenarios idea myself to show my players how the Multiverse idea functions and it has produced a lot of enjoyable roleplaying for my group.

    OI

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  • Ian
    replied
    Originally posted by MalcolmSheppard
    2) As for originality . . . meh. D&D has evolved into its own thing over time. Elric stories do have missions and such, but they aren't group centered. I've spoken with MM about how the group orientation of RPGs makes them a bit wierd to port EC stuff into (everybody would want to be the champion!). The assumed D&D setting is also much more of a Fantasy Europe than a Hyboria or Barsoom, though some new material (such as Eberron, the new campaign hardback) is changing this.
    Well, an idea my RPG group came up with:

    Say you have 4 players. One could be an incarnation of the Eternal Champion,
    the other 3 his/her companions. But, to not ruin the fun for all, have
    4 parallel scenarios, where the player controlling the aspect of the EC
    rotates (as a different incarnation). The scenarios can all be linked,
    but not directly so there is no foreknowledge. Then, the climax would
    be all 4 aspects of the EC joining for the final battle.

    That would work and have the right feel, no?

    Ian

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Hey folks,

    I'm a freelancer in the RPG field/industry whatever, so I thought I'd throw in my two cents:

    1) Gary Gygax wasn't and isn't a particularly big fan of Tolkein, but he included those elements to make D&D more saleable. He prefers Vance, Howard, Burroughs and Moorcock. That's why the D&D magic system is lifted from Vance and elements from the others can be seen all over the place.

    2) As for originality . . . meh. D&D has evolved into its own thing over time. Elric stories do have missions and such, but they aren't group centered. I've spoken with MM about how the group orientation of RPGs makes them a bit wierd to port EC stuff into (everybody would want to be the champion!). The assumed D&D setting is also much more of a Fantasy Europe than a Hyboria or Barsoom, though some new material (such as Eberron, the new campaign hardback) is changing this.

    My own work's mostly been for White Wolf's Mage: The Ascension line, which is not necessarily mission/loot oriented, since the protagonists don't actually need money. It also has some derivative elements, but it largely hangs together as its own thing (or did -- the line ended under, among other things, a storyline I wrote to destroy it last year).

    3) Derivative can sometimes lead to interesting spins, too. For example: How would you apply the EC concept to a world like the one portrayed in the Mahabharata? Or superheroes? The variations could be interesting . . .

    4) Of course, it would be super-cool if MM was ever involved in the creation of an RPG setting from the ground up, but to be honest, that kind of effort would probably net too little money to be worth his notice.

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  • Michael Moorcock
    replied
    While one can never be absolutely certain that one hasnآ´t unconsciously lifted from somewhere, Iآ´m pretty certain that I came up with the idea of a soul-drinking sword which lends itself to its heroes vampiric tendencies -- a hero who would otherwise be weak and feeble without it. Poul Andersonآ´s great novel (read the original not the 70s revision -- original is in the Fantasy Masterworks series) was a huge inspiration. It came out a few months before the first volume of Lord of the Rings and, as Iآ´ve said elsewhere, LOTR was a disappointment to me in comparison when I was fourteen. Leigh Brackett was another strong influence, as was Fritz Leiber, so anyone wanting to trawl for influences should look to them. Iآ´m pleased to say Fantasy Masterworks are bringing out a Leigh Brackett collection next year, with an intro by me, and Iآ´d recommend it to all.

    Leave a comment:


  • PsychicWarVeteran
    replied
    Originally posted by TheEighthSon
    Unless you believe the Deep Purple, "Stormbringer" is based on ancient legends, malarky... :lol:
    Malarky, indeed. Here's what Mike has said on the issue:

    Originally posted by Michael Moorcock in another thread
    FYI, the band's use of the name was an unconcsious lift. There was an interview when it came out in NME in which the interviewer said 'Why did you use a title of Michael Moorcock's book ?' A: We didn't. It's a mythological name. NME: No it isn't. A: Yes it is... It was on that level.
    [broken link]
    Last edited by Rothgo; 04-09-2010, 08:51 AM.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Researching the Multiverse.

    Originally posted by TheEighthSon
    Unless you believe the Deep Purple, "Stormbringer" is based on ancient legends, malarky... :lol:

    A little research goes a long way me owd china!
    Some people do a websearch and imagine that the results are the definative answer.The world's a lot bigger than the net and you have to get out there to investigate a few dusty old legends to see how true they are!



    Voroon

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Law and Chaos and Poul Anderson.

    Originally posted by Dead-Air
    Well, o.k., but he did invent the magic/cursed sword, right?
    The cursed sword idea he got from Poul Anderson's 'The Broken Sword', which is an excellently doomladen story by the way! :) I wholeheartedly recommend the aforementioned tome to all and sundry...tee hee!



    He is definitely responsible for the soul-drinking sentient sword idea, yes.[/quote]

    I agree with this comment.I have not come across any soul drinking swords before MM's stories. The sword in the Poul anderson novel does not drink souls.

    Vorronatic :lol:

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  • Kitsune
    replied
    Ah the anchient legands that you read about in the "Brown Journal"


    Originally posted by TheEighthSon
    Unless you believe the Deep Purple, "Stormbringer" is based on ancient legends, malarky... :lol:

    Leave a comment:


  • TheEighthSon
    replied
    Unless you believe the Deep Purple, "Stormbringer" is based on ancient legends, malarky... :lol:

    Leave a comment:


  • PsychicWarVeteran
    replied
    Re: Law and Chaos and Poul Anderson.

    Originally posted by Voroon
    Also that MM openly admits to being influenced by it.If you don't believe me please ask the main man himself!
    Oh, well, okay then. I didn't know this. You sound pretty sure and I have to admit I've not read every single thing Mike has said regarding his influences, so who am I to say you're wrong? The resource I found dated Three Hearts and Three Lions at 1961, so I was going on that.

    Originally posted by Dead-Air
    Well, o.k., but he did invent the magic/cursed sword, right?
    He is definitely responsible for the soul-drinking sentient sword idea, yes.

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  • Dead-Air
    replied
    Well, o.k., but he did invent the magic/cursed sword, right? ;)

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Law and Chaos and Poul Anderson.

    Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
    Originally posted by Voroon
    The Law and Chaos alignments might have been inspired by Gygax reading Moorcock, but Moorcock got the idea of Law and Chaos from Poul Anderson's 'Three Hearts and Three Lions'.Check it out Fanboys! :)
    Okay, well, I checked it and Three Hearts and Three Lions was published in 1961.

    Mike said in [broken link]another thread that "Elric was conceived in the late 1950s and the first story was published in 1961."

    While it is possible that Anderson and Moorcock both thought it up at the same time, I cannot see how a book published in 1961 was the inspiration for an idea Mike conceived in the late 1950s.


    I think you will find that 'Three Hearts and Three Lions' was originally published in1953.Plenty of time to have been read by a young MM, when he wasn't playing skiffle music! Also that MM openly admits to being influenced by it.If you don't believe me please ask the main man himself! :)

    Salutations fellow otakus!
    Last edited by Rothgo; 04-09-2010, 08:51 AM.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: You guys noticed how "RPG" like Elric is?

    Originally posted by Joaquim
    Are all his books like this, fast paced adventure with little missions?
    Quest-based motivations often drive MM's plots. See Death is No Obstacle for the maistro's own discussion of how he does this.

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