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You guys noticed how "RPG" like Elric is?

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  • #16
    Re: Law and Chaos.

    Originally posted by Voroon
    The Law and Chaos alignments might have been inspired by Gygax reading Moorcock, but Moorcock got the idea of Law and Chaos from Poul Anderson's 'Three Hearts and Three Lions'.Check it out Fanboys! :)
    Okay, well, I checked it and Three Hearts and Three Lions was published in 1961.

    Mike said in [broken link]another thread that "Elric was conceived in the late 1950s and the first story was published in 1961."

    While it is possible that Anderson and Moorcock both thought it up at the same time, I cannot see how a book published in 1961 was the inspiration for an idea Mike conceived in the late 1950s.
    Last edited by Rothgo; 04-09-2010, 08:52 AM.
    "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
    --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

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    • #17
      Well, time is wierd in the Multiverse, ain't it?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by TheEighthSon
        At this time, as competition was building for the hearts, minds, and Souls of closeted role-playing geeks ( :lol: just kidding :lol: ) between RPG companies, Chaosium decided to throw the copyright ownership card into the ring. They had contacted MM previously with the intention of creating RPGs set in some of MM's worlds- Elric and its expansions, and I believe there was a Corum one too? MM had agreed, maybe, or something, and Chaosium assumed they had exclusivity. Chaosium had words with TSR, and Deities and Demigods was reprinted sans Moorcockian and Lovecraftian reference.
        I agree with most of what you say, but herre's the scoop as to why the Melnibonean and Cthulhu Mythos were removed :

        [broken link]

        Chaoisum may have been (and still are) bastards about royalties and handling of the license, but the Deities and Demigods snafu was handled quite well by them, TSR is to blame.

        Ian
        Last edited by Rothgo; 04-13-2010, 12:00 PM.
        Diplomacy: The ability to tell someone to
        go to hell so that they will look forward to
        making the trip.

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        • #19
          Arright, so mine's a rather condensed version of events; it was straight off the top of my head. :oops:

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          • #20
            Re: You guys noticed how "RPG" like Elric is?

            Originally posted by Joaquim
            Are all his books like this, fast paced adventure with little missions?
            Quest-based motivations often drive MM's plots. See Death is No Obstacle for the maistro's own discussion of how he does this.

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            • #21
              Re: Law and Chaos and Poul Anderson.

              Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
              Originally posted by Voroon
              The Law and Chaos alignments might have been inspired by Gygax reading Moorcock, but Moorcock got the idea of Law and Chaos from Poul Anderson's 'Three Hearts and Three Lions'.Check it out Fanboys! :)
              Okay, well, I checked it and Three Hearts and Three Lions was published in 1961.

              Mike said in [broken link]another thread that "Elric was conceived in the late 1950s and the first story was published in 1961."

              While it is possible that Anderson and Moorcock both thought it up at the same time, I cannot see how a book published in 1961 was the inspiration for an idea Mike conceived in the late 1950s.


              I think you will find that 'Three Hearts and Three Lions' was originally published in1953.Plenty of time to have been read by a young MM, when he wasn't playing skiffle music! Also that MM openly admits to being influenced by it.If you don't believe me please ask the main man himself! :)

              Salutations fellow otakus!
              Last edited by Rothgo; 04-09-2010, 08:51 AM.

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              • #22
                Well, o.k., but he did invent the magic/cursed sword, right? ;)
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                • #23
                  Re: Law and Chaos and Poul Anderson.

                  Originally posted by Voroon
                  Also that MM openly admits to being influenced by it.If you don't believe me please ask the main man himself!
                  Oh, well, okay then. I didn't know this. You sound pretty sure and I have to admit I've not read every single thing Mike has said regarding his influences, so who am I to say you're wrong? The resource I found dated Three Hearts and Three Lions at 1961, so I was going on that.

                  Originally posted by Dead-Air
                  Well, o.k., but he did invent the magic/cursed sword, right?
                  He is definitely responsible for the soul-drinking sentient sword idea, yes.
                  "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
                  --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

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                  • #24
                    Unless you believe the Deep Purple, "Stormbringer" is based on ancient legends, malarky... :lol:

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                    • #25
                      Ah the anchient legands that you read about in the "Brown Journal"


                      Originally posted by TheEighthSon
                      Unless you believe the Deep Purple, "Stormbringer" is based on ancient legends, malarky... :lol:

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                      • #26
                        Re: Law and Chaos and Poul Anderson.

                        Originally posted by Dead-Air
                        Well, o.k., but he did invent the magic/cursed sword, right?
                        The cursed sword idea he got from Poul Anderson's 'The Broken Sword', which is an excellently doomladen story by the way! :) I wholeheartedly recommend the aforementioned tome to all and sundry...tee hee!



                        He is definitely responsible for the soul-drinking sentient sword idea, yes.[/quote]

                        I agree with this comment.I have not come across any soul drinking swords before MM's stories. The sword in the Poul anderson novel does not drink souls.

                        Vorronatic :lol:

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                        • #27
                          Researching the Multiverse.

                          Originally posted by TheEighthSon
                          Unless you believe the Deep Purple, "Stormbringer" is based on ancient legends, malarky... :lol:

                          A little research goes a long way me owd china!
                          Some people do a websearch and imagine that the results are the definative answer.The world's a lot bigger than the net and you have to get out there to investigate a few dusty old legends to see how true they are!



                          Voroon

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by TheEighthSon
                            Unless you believe the Deep Purple, "Stormbringer" is based on ancient legends, malarky... :lol:
                            Malarky, indeed. Here's what Mike has said on the issue:

                            Originally posted by Michael Moorcock in another thread
                            FYI, the band's use of the name was an unconcsious lift. There was an interview when it came out in NME in which the interviewer said 'Why did you use a title of Michael Moorcock's book ?' A: We didn't. It's a mythological name. NME: No it isn't. A: Yes it is... It was on that level.
                            [broken link]
                            Last edited by Rothgo; 04-09-2010, 08:51 AM.
                            "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
                            --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

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                            • #29
                              While one can never be absolutely certain that one hasnآ´t unconsciously lifted from somewhere, Iآ´m pretty certain that I came up with the idea of a soul-drinking sword which lends itself to its heroes vampiric tendencies -- a hero who would otherwise be weak and feeble without it. Poul Andersonآ´s great novel (read the original not the 70s revision -- original is in the Fantasy Masterworks series) was a huge inspiration. It came out a few months before the first volume of Lord of the Rings and, as Iآ´ve said elsewhere, LOTR was a disappointment to me in comparison when I was fourteen. Leigh Brackett was another strong influence, as was Fritz Leiber, so anyone wanting to trawl for influences should look to them. Iآ´m pleased to say Fantasy Masterworks are bringing out a Leigh Brackett collection next year, with an intro by me, and Iآ´d recommend it to all.

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                              • #30
                                Hey folks,

                                I'm a freelancer in the RPG field/industry whatever, so I thought I'd throw in my two cents:

                                1) Gary Gygax wasn't and isn't a particularly big fan of Tolkein, but he included those elements to make D&D more saleable. He prefers Vance, Howard, Burroughs and Moorcock. That's why the D&D magic system is lifted from Vance and elements from the others can be seen all over the place.

                                2) As for originality . . . meh. D&D has evolved into its own thing over time. Elric stories do have missions and such, but they aren't group centered. I've spoken with MM about how the group orientation of RPGs makes them a bit wierd to port EC stuff into (everybody would want to be the champion!). The assumed D&D setting is also much more of a Fantasy Europe than a Hyboria or Barsoom, though some new material (such as Eberron, the new campaign hardback) is changing this.

                                My own work's mostly been for White Wolf's Mage: The Ascension line, which is not necessarily mission/loot oriented, since the protagonists don't actually need money. It also has some derivative elements, but it largely hangs together as its own thing (or did -- the line ended under, among other things, a storyline I wrote to destroy it last year).

                                3) Derivative can sometimes lead to interesting spins, too. For example: How would you apply the EC concept to a world like the one portrayed in the Mahabharata? Or superheroes? The variations could be interesting . . .

                                4) Of course, it would be super-cool if MM was ever involved in the creation of an RPG setting from the ground up, but to be honest, that kind of effort would probably net too little money to be worth his notice.

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