Law and Chaos...

[Anonymous]

I recently made an attempt to read some philosophy. Too complicated for my brain, Iآ´m afraid, although I managed to recognize some similarities between the terminologies of Martin Heidegger and the Hitler apologist Moody, recently evicted from this forum.

Anyway, I begun to ponder the essential dualism of Moorcock cosmology, the war between Law and Chaos. I have never quite understood what principles Law and Chaos symbolize. Now I started to think that possibly they represent the ideologies of Enlightment and Romanticism? Or Rationalism and Irrationalism, or Universalism and Particularism.

I hope Iآ´m not going into over-interpretation...but I have a feeling that I can finally understand what went wrong with the Melnibonأ©ans (self-absorbed romanticists) and Vadhagh (narrow-minded classicists). I hope Mr. Moorcock does not step in now and exclaim "No, no, you got it all wrong..." :D

[Anonymous]

Hey there Olio!

If Heidegger was your first philosophy book of choice then you you picked a winner! His ideas about being are some of the most complex to read. I was impressed with Clinton when he used the "please define the meaning of is" defense. That was right out of Heidegger!

The word "is" has to do with being. In everyday language is could refer to something that is happening in the past, present, or this very second. Heidegger defines this in the beginning of his book Being and Time.

Interestingly, although Heidegger's work has contributed greatly to the field of psychotherapy he was a nazi sympathizer. I believe that he saw religious people as pursuing and unearthly lifestyle. Many thinkers in his time period were athiests and tended to take an analytical view of religion. He believed that when people belonged to traditional groups they weren't really thinking much about the world. His idea was that religious people were not living "in the world," thus they were almost being antisocial.

Much like the John Lennon song "Imagine" Heidegger believed that life would be better without some of life's constructs. If there is no god then what are religious people? What are they when they prefer to spend time with and promote their own kind? Heidegger implied that religious people, or any club types, are shutting the rest of society out for no good reason.

One can see this in the middle-east. If you step back away from religious belief then what are those people doing! How do they see the human race and what do they believe their part in it is?

Anyway, Heidegger was not a jack boot nazi its just that his ideas fit in with national socialism, because in such a system everyone would have to have a sense of wquality and community. I believe that he was a guy that wanted this and got duped by people with sinister intentions.

That was a bit long! However, philosophy is worth reading because it can have a great impact on life. Really, everything is a philosphy including the scientific method! However, if you want to read more of it I suggest starting with Asian philosophy, as it is fun and to the point. Start reading about Zen or Taoism. Zen Flesh Zen Bones is a good and entertaining book. It is filled with Zen stories that communicate the ideas. Many stories are very funny!

[Anonymous]

I think you may be overthinking this.

To me, Law has always symbolized stabilty, but also regimentation. Law is unchangingl, because those who serve it _fear_ change.

Chaos, OTOH, embraces change, but can go to far, and veer from freedom into madness.

Life, pards, exists somewhere in between.

Mario, who should probably register at some point...

[Michael Moorcock]

You could say Law represented conservatism and Chaos liberalism.
Or that Law is classicism and Chaos romanticism and so on.
I've used all these analogies in the past.
The important element in all this, in my philosophy, such as it is,
is the Balance -- my belief that life requires both elements.
I'd suggest getting an introduction to existentialism. It starts with Kierkegaard and winds up, if you like, with Sartre (or even Colin Wilson).
It's what lurks under the surface of most of my books, and sometimes even breaks through ABOVE the surface. I wasn't. I am. I won't be.
:lol:

[Kitsune]

So in the end the argument is not over law or chaos... but where the balance lies...

[Anonymous]

Many thanks for suggestions, I return to Heidegger soon and try Kierkegaard as well. Sartre, I suppose, was a huge influence of Michael Moorcockآ´s generation? I recently found a well-worn copy of his novel, lying in a garbage box! I donآ´t recall its name, but it is the famous one, telling about a historian who is succumbing to "the nausea".

Maybe it was a sign for me from the Lords of the Higher Worlds? I quess I should read the book soon.

[Doc]

I won't discourage you from Nausea, but I prefer The Age of Reason. For whatever reason, it seemed to put Sartre (and most existentialism) in perspective for me.

[Michael Moorcock]

How I wish the BBC would rebroadcast their ambitious 'Roads to Freedom' by Sartre, which caught much of the flavour of the novel.
They don't make 'classic serials' like that any more. These days it seems if it aint got a hooped skirt in it, it won't run. It helped a lot of English speakers get a grip on Sartre. Of course, there are some philosophers (and even non-philosophers) who would like to get a grip on Sartre and throw him in the Seine. He's not considered universally as the best example of your exie. I'd still suggest reading a general introduction, then Kierkegaard as a start. It will also help put Nietzsche
in a reasonable perspective, I suspect, and thus Heidegger. You might also be amused to note that MM's Multiverse has a crew of exies in that
Lancaster bomber. I think Wrongway Heidegger was the reconnaisance officer...

[Anonymous]

Thanks again.

Sartre and Heidegger have enormous intellectual prestige (at least among us pseudo-intellectuals 8) ), but I think Iآ´m going to follow the suggestion and start with some general introduction.

[Anonymous]

Of course, there are some philosophers (and even non-philosophers) who would like to get a grip on Sartre and throw him in the Seine.

why not into the Sein?

(sorry. german pun :D )

[Anonymous]

Satre is great I got a lot out of reading his views about being responsible for your own actions. Also, he mentioned that a person can't take credit for the achievements of their nation because they really only had a hand in what they personally have done.

From a psychology perspective Irvin Yalom has written a lot of good stuff about the application of existentialism and psychotherapy. Easy to read and very thought provoking.

My favorite MM moment regarding existentialism was Elric’s quest for the Grand Grimoire. That had me thinking years before I even knew what existentialism was.