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ARIOCH'S SWORD..

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  • Max von Bek
    replied
    Chopped in half, reforged, chopped in half, reforged, ad infinitum (and no, I have no idea where Mournblade finally ends up - probably down a crack in the sub-strata of the Multiverse! )

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  • Prof. Faustaff
    replied
    Mmm...Donuts!

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  • J-Sun
    replied
    Cool picture!!!

    And, of course, Dyson Spheres are round, too.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere



    But I think the ability to exert their own gravity has some influence on the discussion, so there's that to factor in. I don't know how gravity on Dyson Spheres work. Next time I see that chick Lila Cheney, I'll ask her.

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  • EverKing
    replied
    Originally posted by dacrydium
    Is Arioch's sword in the Knight of the Swords (Corum's world) one of the runeblades, Stormbringer or Mournblade? It is described as black and carved with intricate patterns and runes...
    Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
    My guess is it's the same sword. Has anyone ever thought that Mournblade, like the other 'brothers' of the sword could be an aspect of Stormbringer, too ?
    Originally posted by redcoat
    Re Stormbringer, and presumably Mournblade, Elric on obtaining it states~
    " 'But I know the sword can only be borne by me. You cannot bear it, Arioch, or you would. Only I- or another mortal like me-can take it from the Pulsing Cavern. Is that not so ?'
    'You are clever, Elricof Melnibone.' Arioch spoke with sardonic admiration. 'and you are a fitting servant of Chaos'."
    ( Elric of Melnibone, Bk3, Chapt4. )
    Also Melniboneans refer to Arioch as the 'keeper of the Two Black Swords' not the owner or weilder.
    My take on this whole issue is that the proper black blakes (Stormbringer, Mournblade, etc.) are aspects of the same with Stormbringer, perhaps, as the archetype. Arioch's sword, on the other hand, I see more as a copy of that archetype than a proper aspect. The sword(s) was created to challenge chaos and given the results of what eventually happens in "Stormbringer", I'd have to say that Arioch is likely incapable of weilding even a minor aspect of the sword. I think he wanted so badly to weild that power he attempted to create an "Arioch-safe" version of it. More a manifestation of his own desire than a proper aspect of the black blade.

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  • johneffay
    replied
    I was coming to that, but David beat me to it

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  • David Mosley
    replied
    Originally posted by J-Sun View Post
    But I'd say Round is in fact part of the description:
    Round? Well, I guess this has to count as round:



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  • J-Sun
    replied
    Originally posted by johneffay View Post
    I only bring this up because you have an interest in etymology: etymologically speaking, planets are things that move around in the sky, so shape isn't really an issue.
    Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why I majored in linguistics, not science or physics. Descriptive linguistics vs. prescriptive and all that Sapir-Whorf stuff.

    But I'd say Round is in fact part of the description:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet
    Admittedly, we take Wiki with a grain of salt, but this one aint bad.

    I think that in the semantic domain of English that the word falls under, most of us who hear the word planet think spheres, like Earth. Birds move in the sky, while planets aren't in the sky but in outer space. At some point we either nitpick definitions or go with what us common folk think the words mean. Hence descriptive linguistics.

    No, I recognize that my definition of a planet aint exact. On the other hand, it may not be used exactly in Making of a Sorcerer either. But that's why I prefaced what I said with, "To me..." To avoid the idea that the definition of a planet is rather vague, although Wikipedia has one that seems pretty good in this case.

    But John, you know I love linguistics and will happily talk etymology all day long (and semantic domain, etc.). Thanks for engaging the discussion on that level.

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  • johneffay
    replied
    Originally posted by J-Sun View Post
    To me, planets are round, and edges imply a flatness.
    I only bring this up because you have an interest in etymology: etymologically speaking, planets are things that move around in the sky, so shape isn't really an issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • J-Sun
    replied
    Originally posted by Kyrinn S. Eis View Post
    Though that's certainly news to me, I think he is refering to a Toroid shape.
    Wow. I'd have trouble fitting a dozen of those in a donut box, shaped like that.

    Now, a world shaped like a donut-hole, that makes sense. Or maybe even a jelly-donut. Those are kind of flat and round at the same time, like a fat pancake, except maybe with a jelly-lava core.

    So now I'm more confused.

    Actually, and maybe this has been brought up, but in Elric: the Making of a Sorcerer, issue 2, the world of the Young Kingdoms is called a planet. And in issue three, it's got an edge that you can fall off. To me, planets are round, and edges imply a flatness. And this in back to back comic books. Which makes me think... the Young Kingdoms is an odd donut!

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  • Kyrinn S. Eis
    replied
    Though that's certainly news to me, I think he is refering to a Toroid shape.

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  • J-Sun
    replied
    Originally posted by Nathaniel View Post
    In the sphere of the Young Kingdoms this is probably true, but in the donut shaped world of the Vadhagh and the Mabden?
    remember that in the YK Arioch was a god of the Melniboneans, while in Corum's world he was a god of the (dirty, dirty) Mabden
    Corum's world is shaped like a donut?



    What kind of donut?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rothgo
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael Moorcock View Post
    My guess is it's the same sword. Has anyone ever thought that Mournblade, like the other 'brothers' of the sword could be an aspect of Stormbringer, too ?
    It is pretty much stated in the Quest For Tanelorn as I recall. The whole biz of 'two spirits that the sword makers thought were different, but were atually one' sort of thing.

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  • Dead-Air
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael Moorcock View Post
    My guess is it's the same sword. Has anyone ever thought that Mournblade, like the other 'brothers' of the sword could be an aspect of Stormbringer, too ?
    What a funny way for you to phrase that! I'm pretty certain you implied as much pretty heavily somewhere in one of the latest Elric books, though I can't recall exactly where or which one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nathaniel
    replied
    Originally posted by redcoat View Post
    Re Stormbringer, and presumably Mournblade, Elric on obtaining it states~
    " 'But I know the sword can only be borne by me. You cannot bear it, Arioch, or you would. Only I- or another mortal like me-can take it from the Pulsing Cavern. Is that not so ?'
    'You are clever, Elricof Melnibone.' Arioch spoke with sardonic admiration. 'and you are a fitting servant of Chaos'."
    ( Elric of Melnibone, Bk3, Chapt4. )
    Also Melniboneans refer to Arioch as the 'keeper of the Two Black Swords' not the owner or weilder.
    John
    In the sphere of the Young Kingdoms this is probably true, but in the donut shaped world of the Vadhagh and the Mabden?
    remember that in the YK Arioch was a god of the Melniboneans, while in Corum's world he was a god of the (dirty, dirty) Mabden

    Leave a comment:


  • redcoat
    replied
    Originally posted by dacrydium View Post
    Is Arioch's sword in the Knight of the Swords (Corum's world) one of the runeblades, Stormbringer or Mournblade? It is described as black and carved with intricate patterns and runes...
    Re Stormbringer, and presumably Mournblade, Elric on obtaining it states~
    " 'But I know the sword can only be borne by me. You cannot bear it, Arioch, or you would. Only I- or another mortal like me-can take it from the Pulsing Cavern. Is that not so ?'
    'You are clever, Elricof Melnibone.' Arioch spoke with sardonic admiration. 'and you are a fitting servant of Chaos'."
    ( Elric of Melnibone, Bk3, Chapt4. )
    Also Melniboneans refer to Arioch as the 'keeper of the Two Black Swords' not the owner or weilder.
    John

    Leave a comment:

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