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Where did the idea of the Mittelmarch come from?

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  • Where did the idea of the Mittelmarch come from?

    The Mittelmarch was something I had heard of long before I ever read about it in your work's, Mike. My problem is that I can't remember where or when I actually first heard about it. Its something that has been on my mind lately and it has been bothering me. I was wondering where you and others first heard about it. Maybe it will help me remember.
    Last edited by SERPNTA1267; 06-02-2008, 02:02 PM.
    "The world is such-and-such or so-and-so only because we tell ourselves that that is the way it is. If we stop telling ourselves that the world is so-and-so, the world will stop being so-and-so." - don Juan

  • #2
    I can't answer that question but I can pose another.

    I wonder where the idea for this came from?
    You see, it's... it's no good, Montag. We've all got to be alike. The only way to be happy is for everyone to be made equal.

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    • #3
      Here is an interesting link for you:

      http://www.sffworld.com/forums/archi...hp/t-7814.html

      unless of course that was you posing the question there in the first place...

      :)
      Last edited by Vazkar Asquinol; 06-02-2008, 03:21 PM.
      "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." -Robert A. Heinlein

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      • #4
        Additional salient
        Links
        links
        Ani Maamin B'emunah Sh'leimah B'viyat Hamashiach. V'af al pi sheyitmahmehah im kol zeh achake lo b'chol yom sheyavo.

        "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Phillip K. Dick

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        • #5
          I noticed in one of your links Kyrinn, that there was something about changelings. This maybe where I first heard about it. I believe I have a book of short stories that has one about a changeling. I'll have to go find it, find out what the story is called and when it was written. Thanks
          "The world is such-and-such or so-and-so only because we tell ourselves that that is the way it is. If we stop telling ourselves that the world is so-and-so, the world will stop being so-and-so." - don Juan

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          • #6
            Another place (besides Hamelin and the odd part of Brandenburg) that might be in the Mittelmarch is:

            http://www.all-story.com/issues.cgi?...y&story_id=136

            Story was the basis for the musical "Brigadoon," though the original is much darker. Sounds like it traces back to part of the Albighensian Crusade. Also said to be the birthplace of Christian Rosencreux.
            Kevin McCabe
            The future is there, looking back at us. Trying to make sense of the fiction we will have become. William Gibson

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            • #7
              Originally posted by SERPNTA1267 View Post
              I noticed in one of your links Kyrinn, that there was something about changelings. This maybe where I first heard about it. I believe I have a book of short stories that has one about a changeling. I'll have to go find it, find out what the story is called and when it was written. Thanks
              YW. Hope you find what you're looking for.
              Ani Maamin B'emunah Sh'leimah B'viyat Hamashiach. V'af al pi sheyitmahmehah im kol zeh achake lo b'chol yom sheyavo.

              "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Phillip K. Dick

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              • #8
                Poul Anderson "the Broken Sword" primarily deals with the Sidhe and a changeling (and a jolly unpleasant beseark!)

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                • #9
                  Well, I found the book and the story about the changeling but could find no reference to Mittelmarch. The story talked about the Middle Earth or the lands of the Sidhe. The book is called Faery and is short storys about the faery lands. Most of the stories were written in the late 70's, early 80's and it is possible that I heard of it in one of them. Something just doesn't feel right about it though, so my quest goes on.
                  "The world is such-and-such or so-and-so only because we tell ourselves that that is the way it is. If we stop telling ourselves that the world is so-and-so, the world will stop being so-and-so." - don Juan

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                  • #10
                    Answers originally posted by Mike:
                    Originally posted by Michael Moorcock View Post
                    As with 'multiverse' I might not have been the first to invent the term, but I think I was the first to put it to a specific use. I was also making a reference to George Eliot's Middlemarch, just for the hell of it! I've no objection to you using the term. I use it, of course, to describe the borderlands between one aspect of the multiverse and another.
                    Originally posted by Michael Moorcock View Post
                    Middlemarch is by Geo. Eliot and I am playing with that a bit. I don't know if there are 'Middle Marches' between the worlds, but I'd guess the Middle March would have been some border or other. But as far as I recall I invented it. I tend to go back to German sources -- German romance is one of the roots of modern fantasy -- and, of course, Milton is never far away from this sort of argument, since he pretty much set the picture and the story, the way 2001 set it for sf! Blake thought Milton might be the devil's messenger, he drew Satan so attractively.
                    (The first answer was in response to one of the guys involved in the Mittlemarch LRPG, btw.)
                    _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                    _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                    _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                    _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

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                    • #11
                      I still think it was invented (or reinvented) by me, doing a straight translation of Middlemarch and taking something else from the German -- marches are essentially borderlands. But again I wouldn't be surprised if I hadn't read it in a German romance. I read a lot of German fantastic fiction, much of it in Carlisle's 4 volume translations, during the 50s and 60s and it's possible I picked the phrase up there.

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                      • #12
                        I can't answer that question but I can pose another.

                        I wonder where the idea for this came from?
                        I know I'm necro-ing an older thread, but I happened to stumble across this question, and I wanted to answer the question...

                        I stumbled across the Dagorhir website back in 2003, and when a friend and I couldn't find a group nearby, we decided to start one. When considering options for a "theme" for our group, my friend Josh recommended Mittelmarch. We took the idea of a place between places, in a time between times, and just ran with it.

                        We had no idea we would find the guys we did, who would turn Mittelmarch into a very well-run group within the Dagorhir community. And we had no idea it would become such a big deal that Michael Moorcock HIMSELF would comment on it.

                        Thank you, Mr. Moorcock, for inspiring our idea, and for your blessing of our blatant plagiarism of the name.

                        Bradley H. Cobb
                        Hardcore Dork

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