The Ice Schooner

[Krieghetzer]

I have only read The History of the Runestaff series and am finishing "The Chronicles of Castle Brass" ( will be finished tomorrow) along with The Fireclown (found a copy that is actually the Fireclown!!!!!) and The Ice Schooner.

My question is this...
I noticed in The Chronicles of Castle Brass that Konrad Arflane was mentioned as an Eternal Champion... will there ever be any prelude to The Ice Schooner etc?
I thought the book was awsome, but I love the fact that most of the other Characthers who are Eternal Champions have soooooo much to read about.

[Michael Moorcock]

Keith Roberts wrote two other stories set in the same world as the Ice Schooner, but I don't know if they're in print. I don't have plans to write any more and to be honest have so many things I want to write that unless I can get an extension to the age of 200 I'm not sure I'd be able to do everything I plan!

[Krieghetzer]

awwwww, damn. He's an untouched hero, a comrade where we can see that he is absolutly human, no facade. He showed primal instinct. I know of only one other person who has read it.

[Anonymous]

Ah, the Ice Schooner. The love story at the spine of this novel haunts me still. Additionally, an underrated entry in the annals of the naval genre -- the descriptions of the mechanics of seamanship are among the most evocative and vivid that one can find. I have often wondered how Mr. Moorcock conducted his research for this book.

[A_Non_Ymous]

Ah, The Ice Schooner. I remember it fondly. An sf novel that reads a lot like (and better than most) epic fantasy. It dates to around '66 if I recall, and was serialised in the lamented SF Impulse that was edited by Keith Roberts. As Mr. Moorcock alluded to above, Roberts was fascinated by the background in the book and got permission to use it in some fiction of his own. Mr. Moorcock mentions 2 stories, but I know only of one: "Coranda" (published in 1967 in New Worlds). A fine story it is, too. If there's another Roberts story set against this background, I suppose I ought to seek it out.

Mr. Moorcock published a revised version of The Ice Schooner around 1977. This is the edition I own. It's an early work, but it's a keeper.

As for Keith Roberts, everyone knows his book Pavane. He wrote other good books and stories, too.

LSN

[DiGiMac]

Always been one of my favourites.
Since I discovered MM in the late 70's when a lot of the covers were by Rodney Matthews and BigO were putting out the calendars and posters, my image of Arflane's world has always been influenced by the poster by Matthews I had on my wall. Much more evocative than the cover of the version I have which just looks like a painting of the Cutty Sark stuck on ice skates!

[Michael Moorcock]

Great days when Big O were putting out tons of Rodney's artwork, much of it connected with my books. Postcards as well as posters. And several calendars, one of which at least was called Wizardry and Wild Romance, in which Rodney interpreted my books to produce some of his finest fantasy work.
I've mentioned this elsewhere, but The Ice Schooner was based on Conrad's The Rescue. I wrote it shortly after Behold the Man and The Final Programme, because I was determined to make sure I could write a conventionally structured novel. I've often suggested to beginning writers that the best way to learn to write is to write a version of a book they have enjoyed, borrowing the structure and basic themes (rather than the superstructure, as it were) of the book in question -- and that if you wanted to write a fantasy book, take her lessons from a non-fantasy book. It's a bit like learning to draw, act or play an instrument -- all initially done by imitation of admired 'masters'. The initial response to The Final Programme suggested that I might be running before I'd learned to walk. I'm not now sure that was the case, but I was determined to produce some more 'conventional' work before I went on to do what became A Cure for Cancer.

[A_Non_Ymous]

Conrad's The Rescue? I never knew, but now that it has been pointed out, I can see it.

Conrad's one of my favorite writers in English. The Rescue isn't as widely admired by critics as his better known novels (e.g., Nostromo, Lord Jim, The Secret Agent, or Under Western Eyes). The notorious F. R. Leavis once remarked that Conrad's late novels hardly matter, but such claims have often led me to speculate on the quantity of fertilizer that Leavis had ingested, as he seemed more than a trifle full of it... I've always rather liked The Rescue.

I recall that Graham Greene in his autobiography once claimed that he wrote his "disasterous" second novel (the one between The Man Within and Stamboul Train) very much under the influence of another late Conrad novel: The Arrow of Gold. Greene decided that Conrad was an influence he had to keep in check from then on, because it appeared to exert a deleterious effect on his writing. An odd concern, perhaps, and it somewhat unfairly makes Conrad sound like a plague-bearer. :lol:

I used to wonder whether some of Ballard's early novels were written under the influence of Conrad. Hard to say.

LSN

[Governor of Rowe Island]

I believe I have three versions of 'The Ice Schooner' which means that it's been revised twice, right? Were there any particular reasons for the revisions, Mr. M? I know you revised 'Gloriana' after Colin Greenland set you to thinking,but was it something similar with TIS? Or did you, rarity of rarities, re-read it yourself and decide you could improve it.
Loved it, by the way, the scenery is something that stays in the mind, and Arflane - so torn, such a sacrifice!

[Michael Moorcock]

I think I improved it (I hope) a bit, but not very significantly. I know I'd always felt the ending of the original could be improved. My guess is that few readers would notice much difference.
Ballard was frequently compared with Conrad in his early days, but I think it was more likely Conrad via Graham Green. That slightly retrospectic, elegaic tone also owes a bit to Durrell, probably. Ballard used to say he'd only read Ulyssess and Moby Dick, but I suspect
that was to rid himself of unwelcome comparisons. :) He was a great Ray Bradbury fan at the beginning of his career, too. Indeed, Bradbury's probably the only sf writer he'd read in any quantity.
It wasn't Colin Greenland who suggested flaws in Gloriana but Andrea Dworkin, who otherwise said she loved the book. Even then, she wasn't asking me to revise it. I revised it after conversations with her and other feminists, since the last thing I wanted to appear to be doing was to suggest that rape did anyone 'good'.

[A_Non_Ymous]

It sounds then as if the circa '77 edition of The Ice Schooner I own is not definitive. Anyone know the approximate date of the most recent revision? I want to look at the revised ending.

LSN

[Michael Moorcock]

This is a job for John Superbibliographer Davey!!

[Doc]

Well, I'm (very) far from John, but I seem to recall a 1985 UK edition.

[Governor of Rowe Island]

I read the comments about your dissatisfaction with the ending of 'Gloriana' in 'Death is no Obstacle' so I must have misremembered it, Mr. M.
'The Ice Schooner' is in the Sailing to Utopia omnibus, but is copyright 1966. However, the collection is copyright 1993, so if it's a revised version that would be the most recent.

[A_Non_Ymous]

Copyright date is probably the key. Any new material is typically protected by way of a new copyright.

The original was copyright 1966. The "first" revised edition (that I know of) was copyright 1977.

Presumably, any later edition incorporating new material would be copyright 1977 and 198?. (Assuming Doc's theory of 1985 is correct, which MAY be jumping to conclusions.)

Mr. Moorcock suggested above that only the ending had really been revised, so I'm not too unhappy with my late neolithic copy (1977). :lol:

LSN