Announcement

Collapse

Welcome to Moorcock's Miscellany

Dear reader,

Many people have given their valuable time to create a website for the pleasure of posing questions to Michael Moorcock, meeting people from around the world, and mining the site for information. Please follow one of the links above to learn more about the site.

Thank you,
Reinart der Fuchs
See more
See less

What is with John Daker

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What is with John Daker

    First off, I have read the first two editions of the Eternal Champion(TEC and Von Bek), and I have to say it has totally consumed my reading selections. I have already ordered the next four used from Amazon (for some reason these amazing books are out of print).

    The question I have is that at the end of The Dragon in the Sword, John Daker goes back to his life in London, but being the Eternal Champion, shouldn't he have gone to Tanelorn (excuse any mis-spelling)?

    Another question: Are there more than one eternal champion? I way this because in Rescue of Tanelorn, there seem to be many with in the city that fought for balance?

  • #2
    I have also just finished reading these same books. I was suprised Daker wound up back in London. During the story it keeps you thinking he was going back to Ermizhad.

    My favorite book in this series was Pheonix in Obsidian, and that one was very short. I read it in less than a day.

    I'm sad there is no more Daker to read. I like his stories *almost* as much as the Corum books. After reading Dragon in the Sword I am a little confussed about von Bek. I thought I read on this forum that some people liked him as thier favorite ET. However in Dragon in the Sword he was more of what Jhary was to Corum. It's a good confussion though because I just want to read more! I'm waiting patiently for my von Bek books to arived in the mail.

    -Chaz

    Comment


    • #3
      Many of us here say we like von Bek as EC most, true...but we aren't neccissarily refering to the von Bek in Dragon in the Sword. Von Bek is a family name, the barons of the small bavarian villige of Bek. The first von Bek EC was Graf (or Lord/Baron) Ulrich in the Warhound and World's Pain. I think he is the most liked von Bek. After him was Ritter Manfred (Ritter is like a Graf before they beome Graf, in my understanding...sorta' the heir to the title) in City of Autumn Stars. Beyond them are various others, some with similar or even the same names (Ulrich or Ulric being the most prevalent).

      As for the EC in general: there is only one, but he exists in infinite incarnations. There are times when several join together against a common enemy and these moments are some of the most memorable in all the series (the fight against Agak and Gagak, for instance). Tanelorn is the city of the balance and peace so it is only natural that those of like mind will settle there. So, yes, there are alot of people who fight for the balance in Tanelorn, but not all of them are incarnations of the Eternal Champion.

      I never fully understood John Daker myself...I always just assumed that he was the original version of the EC--or maybe the final version--who lived out most of his life in relative peace. So, I can't be much help there.

      I hope I answered some of your questions though!
      "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
      --Thomas a Kempis

      Comment


      • #4
        Instead of "the original", I think of him as the manifestation with a life closest to mine. I'm comparing my life, Daker's and Elric's.

        Another way of putting it, is that we occupy very similiar scales.

        Originally posted by EverKing
        I never fully understood John Daker myself...I always just assumed that he was the original version of the EC--or maybe the final version--who lived out most of his life in relative peace. So, I can't be much help there.
        The cat spread its wings and flew high into the air, hovering to keep pace with them as they moved cautiously toward the city. Then, as they climbed over the rubble of what had once been a gateway and began to make their way through piles of weed-grown masonry, the cat flew to the squat building with the yellow dome upon its roof. It flew twice around the dome and then came back to settle on Jhary's shoulder. - The King of the Swords

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with Berry... For more ECs like Daker, see Karl Glagueur (is this right, I'm too tired to search for the right spelling ) in Behold The Man.

          Is a great thing to see how a very normal man can suddenly became the greatest champion ever...

          Just another thought: Corum was a regular peaceful guy once. A rich and noble one, but still just someone enjoying his everyday life.

          PS: Oh no, I got another ending before reading the book! This is my fate, I guess... Doomed to know the end of all... before reading it! :lol:
          \\

          Comment


          • #6
            Also, don't forget that Tanelorn has had many changes in appearance and name through the multiverse, so Daker's London could still be Tanelorn....

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Anonymous
              Also, don't forget that Tanelorn has had many changes in appearance and name through the multiverse, so Daker's London could still be Tanelorn....
              Stole my thunder :(

              There are multiple references in other EC work where in certaiun plains Tanelorn is called London.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, or parts of London -- such as Sporting Club Square. I often make the point that it is harder to be a hero in modern times, facing 'ordinary' problems of modern life, than it is to be a simplistic sword-swinger. :)
                The reason for moving the EC from heroic fantasy to 'realistic' fiction is to emphasise that point. Also I like to emphasise that certain virtues must be earned and can be earned in a variety of ways. Just as Tanelorn can be earned. See my recent reference in the Tolkien film strand.

                Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                Comment


                • #9
                  Terminal Cafe-Biloxi Fault

                  Sporting Club Square-London-"Lunching With the Antichrist"
                  \"No, I think Space is a dimension of Time. My theory is that Time is a field and that Space exists as an aspect of Time.\" Michael Moorcock

                  \"All I know about anything is \"I wasn\'t. I am. I will not be.\" Michael Moorcock

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Can Tanelorn be a different place for some people? Like, I find peace at my room, by my neighbor don't. Can that happens?
                    \\

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Absolutely. The windows out of certain flats in Sporting Club Square looked out into Tanelorn, too -- at least until Barbican Begg, that creature of Chaos (or possibly Law gone mad), destroyed it.
                      We look for Mars within ourselves, as Kane says. We look for Tanelorn within ourselves. Every outward journey represents an inward journey.
                      Every fantasy represents a reality. And vice versa.

                      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                      The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                      Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                      The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                      Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Could Tanelorn be personified in a person?

                        Could Ermizhad be John Dakar's personal Tanelorn?

                        How do you pronounce Tanelorn?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Tanelorn might be anything that allows you to feel like you have found Tanelorn. Reminds me of Kiplin's Kim where the priest/holyman spent his life searching for his river and at the end he found it. Sometimes you can find Tanelorn and then fleetingly lose it again, which can be very distressing indeed. Life can be a struggle at times.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What if...

                            our current existance was the best incarnation we ever get?

                            I'm stuck here without a hell sword, no affilations with super beings, or any way to travel the various membranes of the Multiverse.

                            My other incarnations could have been a slug, the town idiot and a cell that couldn't divide.

                            Actually, I could see Terry Gillham making a nice farse out of the idea.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What is with John Daker

                              Originally posted by Workwalk
                              First off, I have read the first two editions of the Eternal Champion(TEC and Von Bek), and I have to say it has totally consumed my reading selections. I have already ordered the next four used from Amazon (for some reason these amazing books are out of print).

                              The question I have is that at the end of The Dragon in the Sword, John Daker goes back to his life in London, but being the Eternal Champion, shouldn't he have gone to Tanelorn (excuse any mis-spelling)?

                              Another question: Are there more than one eternal champion? I way this because in Rescue of Tanelorn, there seem to be many with in the city that fought for balance?
                              Read "Count Brass", specifically, the 3rd book, "The Quest For Tanelorn" to find out what happens to John Daker.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X