Announcement

Collapse

Welcome to Moorcock's Miscellany

Dear reader,

Many people have given their valuable time to create a website for the pleasure of posing questions to Michael Moorcock, meeting people from around the world, and mining the site for information. Please follow one of the links above to learn more about the site.

Thank you,
Reinart der Fuchs
See more
See less

Help a dear comrade on a question...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Help a dear comrade on a question...

    Greetings all, I thank thee for taking your time to read this... I have a question that has been driving me insane! Okay, now everyone has read the last book of the saga right? (I hated that one, no offense Mr. Moorcock but I hated it when Elric died!!) Okay, anyway, when Elric is lying on the ground after getting his heart rip into by Stormbringer, Strombringer stands over him and says: Farewell friend, I was a thousand times more evil than thou..." Did Stormbringer change into a human being at this moment, or what?! I am so confused... Help a comrade out, please...
    They're all true... Especially the lies.

  • #2
    Roughly, according to Quest for Tanelorn

    Comment


    • #3
      I thank thee Morgan Kane

      Originally posted by Morgan Kane
      Roughly, according to Quest for Tanelorn


      I thank thee comrade, for I am glad to have someone reply with the right answers to this... Yes, I am a tad slow-minded but that is okay... At least now I know what Stormbringer is... Lemec just now gave me the answer to this, but your answer also helped... Thank you
      They're all true... Especially the lies.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by The Dark Mage Of Melnibone
        Greetings all, I thank thee for taking your time to read this... I have a question that has been driving me insane! Okay, now everyone has read the last book of the saga right? (I hated that one, no offense Mr. Moorcock but I hated it when Elric died!!) Okay, anyway, when Elric is lying on the ground after getting his heart rip into by Stormbringer, Strombringer stands over him and says: Farewell friend, I was a thousand times more evil than thou..." Did Stormbringer change into a human being at this moment, or what?! I am so confused... Help a comrade out, please...
        Heh, that's pretty much my favourite sequence in any fantasy book I have ever read. I was remember being pretty shocked when Elric died (but not completely, as it had been somewhat foreshadowed). But then I found myself rooting for Stormbringer totally. In a way, the sword is the protagonist and Elric the companion. I seem to recall standing up from my seat going "yeah! yeah!" when I read the last lines of the saga. Sheer brilliance.
        The name that can be named is not the true name.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kamelion
          Heh, that's pretty much my favourite sequence in any fantasy book I have ever read. I was remember being pretty shocked when Elric died (but not completely, as it had been somewhat foreshadowed). But then I found myself rooting for Stormbringer totally. In a way, the sword is the protagonist and Elric the companion. I seem to recall standing up from my seat going "yeah! yeah!" when I read the last lines of the saga. Sheer brilliance.

          It was terrible when Elric perished, but I do not see the reason to root for Stormbringer!! Why would you cheer for Elric's death? He served a purpose yes, but I think that he should have had a better role instead of being practically forced to save the world... He has unfortunate luck throughout the entire saga... He died not actually wanting to die, although he continued to try and make himself believe that death was what he needed... He has helped Stormbringer in a way, for he has fed the sword and relied on it, but then it turned around and killed him, although it saved him many times... I do not know why it would do such a thing... Plus, I would really like to know what happened to Stormbringer after that...

          I thank thee for your comment....

          The Dark Mage
          They're all true... Especially the lies.

          Comment


          • #6
            Elric is a hero as the heroes from the great sagas or japan history or Celtic mythos or Greek mythos .....

            His destiny is to die .... his privilege is to succeed in dying .......

            At the begining of his history, he is a young emperor among intrigues and so on ..... a servant of chaos .....

            When he chooses to move the world .. for instance, in the eyes of the tiger ( correct ? or the eyes of Jade ) he uses/conquers his freedom ....

            And he choses to die for the balance for the birth of a new world .....

            His story results from his choices ..... he is free and that is the most important thing for him .

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by The Dark Mage Of Melnibone
              It was terrible when Elric perished, but I do not see the reason to root for Stormbringer!! Why would you cheer for Elric's death?
              Heh, I dunno, I just did. It wasn't premeditated or anything.... I just found the whole ending thoroughly upbeat, despite the tragedy.

              He served a purpose yes, but I think that he should have had a better role instead of being practically forced to save the world... He has unfortunate luck throughout the entire saga... He died not actually wanting to die, although he continued to try and make himself believe that death was what he needed... He has helped Stormbringer in a way, for he has fed the sword and relied on it, but then it turned around and killed him, although it saved him many times... I do not know why it would do such a thing... Plus, I would really like to know what happened to Stormbringer after that...
              Yeah, it wasn't particularly fair on poor old Elric, but that's part of the tragedy of the Champion. I really enjoyed the fact that there wasn't a traditional happy ending - a culmination of the saga's reversal of stereotypes. Plus I was thrilled that Mike was able to write a story that made me root for an entity like Stormbringer.

              You should check out Dragon in the Sword, Phoenix in Obsidian and Quest for Tanelorn for more on the Black Blade. Although time isn't really linear in the Eternal Champion books, Dragon in the Sword is sort of set before the Elric books and the other two are set afterwards. Quest for Tanelorn in particular is something of a finale.

              I think that there might be more on Stormbringer in the latest trilogy (Dreamthief's Daughter etc) but I haven't read those yet and am assiduously avoiding spoilers (no spoilers, folks! lol), so can't shed any light there I'm afraid.
              The name that can be named is not the true name.

              Comment


              • #8
                I actually think that's one of the things that sets apart Mike from mainstream 'serial' writers like R.A. Salvatore, Terry Brooks etc.

                The Elric saga (not to mention all of the other EC sequences) has a clear beginning and end, and I believe Mike has said before that as far as reading order goes it doesnt' really matter what order in which you read the Elric stories because Elric Of Melnibone and Stormbringer bookend the whole thing. The character exists within the framework of introduction and his eventual death. The fact that Elric dies hasn't precluded Mike from writing additional Elric stories that fit into a general timeline and explore the character in different ways (and using different narrative techniques).

                It's certainly a far cry from the likes of R.A. Salvatore's stuff - while Salvatore writes better than most of the D&D'ophiles (and I enjoyed his stuff in my early teens) the Drizzt stories are a blatant cash-cow with no clear "Destiny" for the character or overarching mythic structure. Similarly, while Tolkien (for example) wasn't writing strictly for the money, one criticism that has been levelled against LOTR is that Tolkien conceived it as a myth, but then doesn't obey a mythic literary structure. The point is that heroes always die - Cuchulain, Achilles, Herakles, King Arthur etc. The ending of LOTR was painfully drawn out - a fact which became painfully obvious in the movie. Even without the prologue a good editor (had he dared to "edit" LOTR and incur the wrath of LOTR purists/fundamentalists);), might have suggested that "Frodo should probably die about now". For example...

                I'm actually glad Mike had the balls to try new things, and experiment with new styles - rather than simply giving people more of the same.

                I mean, everything has to come to an end - and I'd rather that end give the character some integrity rather than what a lot of network TV shows do - which is to run with a formula for as long as possible, squeeze as much as possible out of it and then letting it quietly die off - unfinished and a pale shadow of the original.
                Last edited by devilchicken; 10-09-2006, 03:01 PM.
                Batman: It's a low neighborhood, full of rumpots. They're used to curious sights, which they attribute to alcoholic delusions.

                Robin: Gosh, drink is sure a filthy thing, isn't it? I'd rather be dead than unable to trust my own eyes!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Huh. I didn't see it as a definite ending, nor Elric's death at all.

                  I have a rather new-agey and strange way of looking at things though, I guess.

                  I always thought that time was irrelevant in these books, and that the multidimensional nature of the reality it portrayed sort of denied any kind of finality.

                  I also thought Elric and Stormbringer were one in the same, further implying that Elric's death wasn't really a real death.

                  Maybe it works on different levels. On the surface, of course it follows the tragic hero narrative. But to me, the metaphysical implications of the book kind of took it beyond simple life and death and linear time, and having only one existence at one "time", etc.

                  Or, there's always the chance that I just didn't "get it".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kinetic
                    Maybe it works on different levels. On the surface, of course it follows the tragic hero narrative. But to me, the metaphysical implications of the book kind of took it beyond simple life and death and linear time, and having only one existence at one "time", etc.

                    Or, there's always the chance that I just didn't "get it".
                    I think that Mike's work in general, and the books concerning the "multiverse" do work on different levels, and that those levels are primarily whatever the reader sees in the work (I believe the technical term for this is "reader response criticism" - what the reader interprets is "right" regardless of what the author;s origninal motivation was). Therefore I think that you "get it" regardless of the conclusion you come to.

                    My personal interpretation is that Stormbringer represents the things that stand between the person one knows one is, and the person one would like to be, and Elric's struggle with Stormbringer is the struggle within ourselves to become the ideal of who we could be in the world.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      "My personal interpretation is that Stormbringer represents the things that stand between the person one knows one is, and the person one would like to be, and Elric's struggle with Stormbringer is the struggle within ourselves to become the ideal of who we could be in the world."


                      Hawksun, thankyou for pointing out this insight, I will think over this for some time. This is the kind of thing I was trying to find in my earlier meanings and interpretations question. I and I think some others miss these deeper insights and meanings and I think it would be good to have a commentary page devoted to them. I think I saw Elric and Stormbringer as being almost a single being with two schitzophrenic personalities somewhat like Golem.


                      Thanks again!
                      TFT
                      Last edited by Tales from Tanelorn; 10-12-2006, 10:26 AM.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X