Question about Von Beck books

[Chaz]

I am reading White Wolf Publishing Micahael Moorcock's The Eternal Champion. The 2nd book in this volume is The Sundered Worlds and seems to be a Von Beck story. As I started to read it I found it was SCI-FI space type of story instead of the fantasy type I like. So, I skipped over it to start reading Pheonix in Obsidian.

My question is, are all Von Beck books SCI-FI like? If I want to read more fantasy Eternal Champion books, should I stick with Erekose, Corum, Elric and Hawkmoon? (Did I leave anyone out?)

Maybe I'm wording it wrong, but by fantasy I mean swords and horses. Medieval is what I'm thinking.

Thanks.

Chaz

[ThanosShadowsage]

Sci-Fi/Von Bek

I can handle this question if you like.

Mike writes in a lot of different genres. Sundered Worlds is definitely Sci-Fi (I liked it, but I'm a Sci-Fi fan). But no, not all Von Bek stories are sci-fi. Sundered Worlds is the only Von Bek story I've read that was sci-fi actually. Most of the Von Bek stories are fantasy and have biblical touch to them (mostly about God, Lucifer, and the Holy Grail). Von Bek is one of my favorite incarnations. Good stuff.

Thanos

[dlackey]

I too was confused by this years ago, when i first started reading the White Wolf books. I gather that the Sundered Worlds was considered an important book in understanding the structure of the Multiverse and introduces themes that will run through the series, much as The Eternal Champion does. Mr. M or John Davey could answer that a lot better than I could.

All 3 novels in Von Bek (the warhound and the worlds pain, city in the autumn stars, and the dragon in the sword) are all fantasy, and all 3 great novels. You should enjoy them. It is worth noting that the 3rd book in the Von Bek collection is actually the sequel to The Eternal Champion and Phoenix in Obsidian, so I'm sure you will really enjoy that one.

You'll find over the course of the 15 omnibus editions that the bulk of it is fantasy, with a healthy sprinkling of I guess science-fantasy, and a little outright science fiction. Science in these books takes a back seat to the story. Believe me, my eyes glaze over when I start reading most sci-fi (robots, moon bases, rockets, etc.).

[ThanosShadowsage]

Sci-Fi

Bah! �Yer a pansy Dlackey! That's what I love about Mike's work. :P

No matter how far out it gets into the fantasy genre it always has a logical sci-fi explanation. I love it! :P

Joking about the name calling by the way.

I guess what I'm trying to point out here is that Mike's work transcends genres and different types of readers can all enjoy a good Moorcockian epic.

Thanos

[dlackey]

What I like is the fact that whatever sci-fi is in the stories isn't in the way, the story is first and foremost. I suspect the science in several of the books is wonky anyway (to cop a phrase Stephen King used to describe his own sci-fi). For example, there is no in depth explanation behind the cities at the End of TIme that sustain everything. I'm sure if there was, I'd find it exceedingly dull and move on to something more stimulating.

I should add that I generally am interested in science, I like the discovery channel, I like reading about new advances in science, etc., but I find hard science fiction to be so damn boring. Greg Bear is an exception I guess. I enjoyed The Forge of God.

[Michael Moorcock]

Science fantasy has always been my preferred term, if we're going to have categories at all. But, yes, The Sundered Worlds is a key book in understanding the ideas of the Multiverse, so that's why it's included early in the American series. That book and three other science fiction novels were published separately in England and are actually currently out of print there. The other science fiction/fantasy books are pretty easy to spot, since they turn up in The Roads Between the Worlds and
Sailing to Utopia (is it ? My memory's going!). Pretty much all the other books in the omnibus set are fantasy/science fantasy. I regard the first Corum series, for instance, as science fantasy rather than fantasy, though the bias is towards fantasy. The City in the Autumn Stars is fantasy but contains little mediaevalism, since it begins in the late 18th century. The Hawkmoon books, too, are set in the future, but are essentially fantasy. I suppose the brief way of putting it is to say that my books don't derive from the Tolkien tradition, though I'm still not sure where that tobacco, gunpoweder, tomatoes and potatoes all came from in Middle Earth! Middle America ? Middle China ? And I still wonder
how a reference to an express train got into LOTR! Maybe that's why I prefer science fantasy, which offers a certain amount of logic to explain
such dissonances. :)

[Joz]

On the subject of VoN Bek...

I re-read The warhound and the worlds pain recently and I have to ask is Ulrich Von Bek the original EC?

There is a passage or two which suggest that the souls he redeems (including Sedenko's? I hope so) will be reincarnated to try again rather than claimmed by either heaven or hell. Does this lead to the many and varied incarnations of the EC, the love intrest and the companion?

Or would that only be true in the particular facet of the multiverse (our own?) in which the Kreighund exsisted?

Oh BTW picked up the omnibus of Hawkmoon recently, fantastic stuff, thanks for writing such great books.

[Michael Moorcock]

Not really. John Daker, I suppose, is the original. Von Bek is certainly the manifestation of the champion in our recent history. But, of course, there are many strands to the multiverse. Maybe Von Bek's the original in another universe ?
Thanks for your kind comments about Hawkmoon. Much appreciated.

[Chaz]

Thank you all for the replies. Based on this I just ordered The Warhound and the Worlds Pain. Is it safe to read Dragon in the Sword before the other von bek books?

Also what is the name of the Hawkmoon Omnibus? I'll have to hunt down a copy of that next.

-Chaz

[McTalbayne]

I think the Hawkmoon Omnibus is called Hawkmoon.

[VonWeiner]

Hey Chaz, NJ! I was born and raised there (until 14). Still have family in Tom's River.

I saw your Avatar and it looks like a Medal of Honor character. You play anything online?

[Chaz]

I think the Hawkmoon Omnibus is called Hawkmoon.

Well that won't make searching for it on Amazon.com any easier :P Thanks.

-Chaz

[Chaz]

Hey Chaz, NJ! I was born and raised there (until 14). Still have family in Tom's River.

I saw your Avatar and it looks like a Medal of Honor character. You play anything online?

Hey. I was born in the Bronx (NYC) and moved to NJ with my family when I was around 10. So yeah I mostly was raised in NJ as well. I recently purchased a home here in Middlesex boro, MIddlesex county. Not too far from Tom's River..... nothing in NJ is from from each other, just a whole lot of people in between. :lol:

My avatar is from Enemy Territory. The excellent free game. www.splashdamage.com. I did play a whole lot of medal of honor, but now-a-days its Call of Duty. If you like MOH I recommend COD. :)

-Chaz

[VonWeiner]

Yeah, I have ET. Played Wolfenstein from the beginning when it first came out. My son is always on ET playing as "Deathead". Great game and Free!

What's your name in ET? Same as here? I'll look for ya - with my MP40!!! :lol:

[Chaz]

I don't play much ET anymore. When I do I put up a dedicated server for the "unpatched" version of the game. (I'm luck enough to have access to a dedicated T1) The servers name is (SOB) Server T1 Dedicated. You might see me running around in there as (SOB)Chaz.

Bring that MP40 on!!! I'll take ya on with a "Union made" Tommy gun anyday

Oh, I'd still like to know if I can read The Dragon in the Sword before the other Von Bek books. I just finished The Eternal Champion and Pheonix in Obsidian. I loved em both and need more. :D

-Chaz