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Question I'd like to ask Mike

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  • Question I'd like to ask Mike

    To wit: I'm aware he's not impressed with Tolkien's work, and the like, but as someone who's read both Mike's and Tolkien's several times, is he aware that the central character/s in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings - Frodo and Gollum - are addicts, much like Elric of Melnibone?
    sigpic Myself as Mephistopheles (Karen Koed's painting of me, 9 Nov 2008, U of Canterbury, CHCH, NZ)

    Gold is the power of a man with a man
    And incense the power of man with God
    But myrrh is the bitter taste of death
    And the sour-sweet smell of the upturned sod,

    Nativity,
    by Peter Cape

  • #2
    Not to count Bilbo.
    "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
    "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

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    • #3
      Having read the rehash of the Witcher vs Elric controversy, I'd like to make it clear I'm not accusing Mike of copying Tolkien in any way. I think Tolkien got the "addict" angle from seeing wounded soldiers being put on morphine during the Great War, and not being able to get themselves off it; we know where Mike got his angle on addiction: it's all through the Jerry Cornelius books.
      sigpic Myself as Mephistopheles (Karen Koed's painting of me, 9 Nov 2008, U of Canterbury, CHCH, NZ)

      Gold is the power of a man with a man
      And incense the power of man with God
      But myrrh is the bitter taste of death
      And the sour-sweet smell of the upturned sod,

      Nativity,
      by Peter Cape

      Comment


      • #4
        It's an interesting connection. The difference is I think in how they deal with the addiction. Elric retains his nobility in spite of often succumbing. Frodo resist and remains noble due to his essential humility. In Gollum we see what happens to a someone who succumbs in Tolkien's world. Addiction it seems can be overcome by the possession of certain traits perceived as virtues. Elric's nobility leaves him often horrified at what he is doing but does not prevent him doing it. I think there is a different perception of the ethics of addiction here.

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        • #5
          I sure hope Mike finds his way back here now that his computer issues are resolved. I would like to hear his thoughts on this.
          "In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro"
          --Thomas a Kempis

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by EverKing View Post
            I sure hope Mike finds his way back here now that his computer issues are resolved. I would like to hear his thoughts on this.
            Most definitely! His presence here is greatly missed.
            "He found a coin in his pocket, flipped it. She called: 'Incubus!'
            'Succubus,' he said. 'Lucky old me.'" - Michael Moorcock The Final Programme

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            • #7
              I quite like this take on Tolkien's "ring."

              But I really doubt addiction was in Tolkien's mind while writing his trilogy. The man's letters and notes have been assiduously raked over for decades. If there was strong evidence for addiction playing so crucial a role in the work, I'd expect somebody would have found it by now.

              Instead, far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be anything more than supposition that he must have seen the effects of morphine addiction.

              Nevertheless, death of the author is a thing...

              Comment


              • #8
                If you think of addiction as a psychological trait then I think it works. Tolkien may or may not have seen soldiers addicted to morphine but Frodo is undoubtedly acting under a compulsion. I think Elric's behaviour is similar. Mike says he was like himself at that age and I don't think Mike was literally an addict at that age, but he was acting under compulsions as most of us do to some extent. As St Paul put it, the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Or as Freud would say being under control of the IT or Id. Physical addiction is an extreme version of that compulsion. Years ago I read a book that compared being in love to addiction, what it called distorted dependency syndrome. Psychoanalysts talk about cathexis which has been defined as 'the concentration of mental energy on one particular person, idea, or object (especially to an unhealthy degree).' That describes both Frodo's, or more so Gollum's, relation to the ring and Elric's relation to Stormbringer.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jack Of Shadows View Post
                  Most definitely! His presence here is greatly missed.
                  I think he's focusing on finishing the three! novels* he's got on the go at the moment. :)

                  *These being: "revision of [The] Woods [of Arcady], completion of Elric novel, [and] Stalking Balzac".
                  _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                  _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                  _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                  _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by David Mosley View Post
                    I think he's focusing on finishing the three! novels* he's got on the go at the moment. :)

                    *These being: "revision of [The] Woods [of Arcady], completion of Elric novel, [and] Stalking Balzac".
                    Very cool, looking forward to those! He's definitely busy. I just hope that both Mike and Linda are doing well, especially with all that's been going on lately in the world.

                    Thanks for the update David...take care and stay safe!
                    "He found a coin in his pocket, flipped it. She called: 'Incubus!'
                    'Succubus,' he said. 'Lucky old me.'" - Michael Moorcock The Final Programme

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by David Mosley View Post
                      I think he's focusing on finishing the three! novels* he's got on the go at the moment. :)

                      *These being: "revision of [The] Woods [of Arcady], completion of Elric novel, [and] Stalking Balzac".
                      Wow thats great news. I‘m looking forward to these. I didn’t even know he was working on another elric novel. Thanks for the update.

                      And I hope he is well in this difficult times.

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