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Mr. Moorcock, it seems your influence gets everywhere!

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  • Mr. Moorcock, it seems your influence gets everywhere!

    I was just chatting to debut author Hal Duncan, and this little beauty cropped up:

    Me: Well, the Vellum itself did remind me of the Multiverse, but not in a rip-off way; more like respect going on. As I'd been thinking that, to see you reference Jerry Cornelius at one point did make me chuckle.

    Hal Duncan: Yeah, the 3D time thing leads inevitably to a Moorcock Multiverse idea, but then if yer systematising the idea of alternative realities at all ye can't help but cring up comparisons. But there are huge chunks of Jerry Cornelius in Jack Flash so the tip-of-the-hat was only right, I thought. Kudos where kudos is due.


    :clap:
    Call me cockey, but if there\'s an alien I can\'t kill, I haven\'t met him and killed him yet!

  • #2
    I was just reading some interviews in BACK ISSUE #6. Steve Bissette and Rick Veitch were discussing Alan Moore's SWAMP THING run, mentioning that Moore used Jerry Cornelius as the template for John Constantine, even though Bissette had been drawing the "Sting" lookalike in the background for a few issues before Alan decided what to do with him.

    Jerry Cornelius is everywhere, or, at least, iterations of JC.

    Small multiverse ;)

    Jeff

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Lord Doom
      I was just reading some interviews in BACK ISSUE #6. Steve Bissette and Rick Veitch were discussing Alan Moore's SWAMP THING run, mentioning that Moore used Jerry Cornelius as the template for John Constantine, even though Bissette had been drawing the "Sting" lookalike in the background for a few issues before Alan decided what to do with him.

      Jerry Cornelius is everywhere, or, at least, iterations of JC.

      Small multiverse ;)

      Jeff

      I already had imagined John Constantineآ´s creation had been influenced by Jerry Cornelius. The Mikeآ´s influence in FC and Fantasy is very big. For example, how it already pointed here, Warlock, by Jim Starlin, is influenced by Elric.
      And I wonder: can you remember Sebastian O, by Grant Morrison? Even this character has a wilderian direction, would be not possible to see in he Jerry Corneliusآ´s echoes?
      Besides, The concept of Multiverse which was used by DC Comics was a simplification of the Mikeآ´s ideas of Multiverse...

      Rita.

      Comment


      • #4
        My argument re. Grant Morrison was that some of the material seemed lifted directly from my books, but I just remembered I said I was going to stop bitching about that. I enjoy his later work! What was good about Alan Moore was that he took John Constantine as far from Jerry Cornelius as I took Elric from Zenith the Albino. It's a continuous chain or, as Terry Pratchett has said, a big pot -- you take some out, you put some in. Some, like Terry, put at least as much in as they take out...

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        • #5
          Ha ha! I'm glad they're admitting it now!

          I mentioned to Alan I saw a lot of Jerry C in John Constantine at the time, and he said something like, "Well, I suppose there might be a little bit of Jerry in there..."

          Writers can be very sensitive about influences. I thought giving him the initials JC was a tip o'the hat, and the magic angle made him sufficiently unlike Jerry to avoid any rip-off allegations.

          Alan Moore is the greatest living comics scripter, as enny fule kno, so I hope no-one will think I'm being critical with these remarks. As I've said before, he is one of the very few writers I consider capable of telling a Jerry C story of his own, if the opportunity and the urge ever coincided.

          Comment


          • #6
            Funny. Alan had always told me how he was influenced by Cornelius, but maybe he was going through a period of being irritated by people (not you Guy!) playing the 'influence' game. I mean, I'm willing to acknowledge the huge debt I owe to Anthony Skene, but not willing to have someone tell me it 'all' came from Skene. Alan Moore's one of those who has put a lot back into the pot, as you'd agree, and sometimes you can get a bit sensitive if you suspect people are accusing you of taking it all out of the pot... :) What we can all reasonably object to is J.K.Rowling's recently quoted remarks (assuming she made them and they're not out of context) about not realising Potter was 'fantasy'... And we can reasonably applaud Terry Pratchett's riposte.

            Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
            The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
            Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


            Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
            The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
            Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
              Funny. Alan had always told me how he was influenced by Cornelius, but maybe he was going through a period of being irritated by people (not you Guy!) playing the 'influence' game. I mean, I'm willing to acknowledge the huge debt I owe to Anthony Skene, but not willing to have someone tell me it 'all' came from Skene. Alan Moore's one of those who has put a lot back into the pot, as you'd agree, and sometimes you can get a bit sensitive if you suspect people are accusing you of taking it all out of the pot... :) What we can all reasonably object to is J.K.Rowling's recently quoted remarks (assuming she made them and they're not out of context) about not realising Potter was 'fantasy'... And we can reasonably applaud Terry Pratchett's riposte.
              Mike, since we all have mentioned Jerry Cornelius... I was wondering...
              If Is not interesting a graphic novel (like MMآ´s Multiverse) about JC? I think would be very positive to introduce Jerry to this new generation of readers.
              I,for instance, would love to read this work.

              Rita.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
                Funny. Alan had always told me how he was influenced by Cornelius, but maybe he was going through a period of being irritated by people (not you Guy!) playing the 'influence' game. I mean, I'm willing to acknowledge the huge debt I owe to Anthony Skene, but not willing to have someone tell me it 'all' came from Skene. Alan Moore's one of those who has put a lot back into the pot, as you'd agree, and sometimes you can get a bit sensitive if you suspect people are accusing you of taking it all out of the pot... :)
                Yes, exactly. Well put. I've come across this a few times. I once praised Neil Gaiman's Mad Hetty character and said I thought she had a lot of Mrs Cornelius in her. I think Neil only heard the bit about Mrs Cornelius, & thought I was sayng he was being derivative. I loved Mad Hetty and I was trying to say so, but I think I managed to get his back up!

                I've given up talking to writers now. :(

                Your previous "guest post" must have come up while I was typing my last 2c worth, BTW. I would have reesponded more directly if I'd read it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Good idea, Rita Maria. I was discussing a Cornelius comic with DC about five or six years ago, but the editor involved unfortunately died before we could get the project off the ground. I suspect, these days, DC probably wouldn't go for anything like Jerry. Essentially, without putting them down, most of the characters derived from Jerry have been a lot more 'ordinary'. I was looking at the Multiverse album today, which I was giving to a friend, and realised how strange it was compared to almost anything else being put out by major publishers these days. One thing DC aren't too happy about, for instance, is political satire and let's face it much of Jerry Cornelius is political satire!
                  Neil's been very generous, Guy, as far as I'm concerned -- witness the story in Tales of the White Wolf and the first issue of Craig Russell's Stormbringer comic...

                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                  The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                  Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                  The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                  Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The Multiverse comic is definatly one of the most bizarre and unique comics ever in comicdom. Maybe it makes more sense if I read it after reading the entire Second Ether trilogy which seems to have a lot of resonance in Multiverse.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      I'm planning to read the Second Ether Trilogy and Multiverse while on my 12 hour flight to America this December. Last time I flew to and from America, I managed to read 'New Nature of the Catastrophe' and 'Earl Aubek'. One there, one back, waiting for connecting flights goes much quicker when trying to wrap your mind over Jerry's exploits.

                      It seems that whenever I travel in or about America, I've got a Moorcock book stashed somewhere. Last years trip to America, I had an Elric collection and was reading 'The Dreaming City' while waiting for a burger in some pub in Heathrow. While this is all barely even academic, your books have allowed me some distraction from the tedious boredom of air travel and asking the stewerdess for water. Now, I'm sure that's blurb-worthy on the paperback copy of White Wolf's Son. :)

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
                        What we can all reasonably object to is J.K.Rowling's recently quoted remarks (assuming she made them and they're not out of context) about not realising Potter was 'fantasy'... And we can reasonably applaud Terry Pratchett's riposte.
                        Oh I missed that one when it made headlines, but managed to find it now:
                        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...ts/4732385.stm

                        Does Time magazine really think that fantasy fiction was previously stuck in "an idealised, romanticised, pseudofeudal world, where knights and ladies morris-dance to Greensleeves"? This is sad and infuriating indeed! I mean, personally, I can't imagine Arioch dancing to Greensleeves, can you? I say, let them taste a bit of Stormbringer. It just might change their minds :lol:

                        And how original Harry Potter really is? A boy who discovers he has magical powers and goes to a magic school? A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula Le Guin was published in 1968 and tells a similar story, just better written and with a much darker tone. I can certainly understand the dissatisfaction Le Guin has expressed several times regarding the Harry Potter phenomenon, and wouldn't be surprised if other notable authors feel the same way. It's already been said that "Rowling can type, but Le Guin can write".

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Originally posted by Oren Douek
                          And how original Harry Potter really is? A boy who discovers he has magical powers and goes to a magic school? A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula Le Guin was published in 1968 and tells a similar story, just better written and with a much darker tone.
                          Rowling's 'originality' lies in conflating the magic school scenario with the Jennings stories. Unlike Le Guin, she insults her audience's intelligence.

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