Announcement

Collapse

Welcome to Moorcock's Miscellany

Dear reader,

Many people have given their valuable time to create a website for the pleasure of posing questions to Michael Moorcock, meeting people from around the world, and mining the site for information. Please follow one of the links above to learn more about the site.

Thank you,
Reinart der Fuchs
See more
See less

The Eternal Champion: The Peoples Choice.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Eternal Champion: The Peoples Choice.

    Now, I know this must be the most obvious question ever devised, but... I can find no evidence on this site of peoples favourite Eternal Champion. Now, I believe Mr. Moorcock has said Elric was his firm favourite, so I will not intrude on his valuable time by asking him to reiterate this, unless I have my facts wrong or he wishes to expalin his decision and if he wishes to gives us his second choice. I just feel it would be very interesting to collate the information and then decide an overall winner. Though, i imagine the outcome is a foregone conclusion, so perhaps people might also include a second choice, so we can pick a runner up. I would also be intrigued to hear the reasons for peoples choices.
    My personal favourite would have to be Von Bek. Probably due to his supreme arrogance that hides an inner self rife with insecurities. It makes him not only an interesting case study, but also someone I can relate to I think. Though not in being a tough soldier of fortune. I also like Ulric Von Bek in The Dreamthief's Daughter, who I think was one of Mr. Moorcock's most well rounded characters. The long ine of Von Beks makes for fascinating reading and the concurrent themes that insinuate their way into the lineage are wonderfully done.
    My second choice would have to be Elric, I mean, do I have to explain?
    But then I feel guilty for leaving out Hawkmoon and Bastable and... well I'll stop now. So what do people think?
    (Please say if you think a Poll should be set up, or if we can just do it through prose)

  • #2
    Yes, Bastable. I'm glad you mentioned him, because you know of course that you're going to get a whole bunch of Elrics and Corums here. But if I stick to Bastable, I'll be proving MMs theory that everyone's favourite eternal champion is the one they read first.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, I was always keen on Bastable, he was always the most human of the Eternal Champions as he was more or less, just a normal person, trying to get along in foreign place, i think there may have been some allegory in his story, though I can't precisely pinpoint it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Kinsley Castle
        Yes, Bastable. I'm glad you mentioned him, because you know of course that you're going to get a whole bunch of Elrics and Corums here. But if I stick to Bastable, I'll be proving MMs theory that everyone's favourite eternal champion is the one they read first.
        Then your theory is flawed my friend.
        I read the Elric series first then the Eternal Champion book(U.S. edition),but my all time favorites where the Corum Series(the third series I had read).
        It was the whole make up and design of these books, with there barbaric nature that sold me to these great stories.
        I've since read all the Eternal Champion stories, but the Corums will always be my favorites!

        On another note.
        I noticed that the demise of Corum in the last book was completely diferent from his final part in the end of Count Brass.
        Any insite into this?Was it because it was an alternate realm were he was just another incarnation of himself,or did I forget/miss something along the way?
        Well any info would be appreciated.Thanks...
        -Berserker-

        Comment


        • #5
          Whoops. A time loop, no doubt. Interesting. Generally most people's favourite character in my stuff IS the one they read first, at least as far as the fantasy is concerned. Some people read the fantasy first and then came to like the non-fantasy, such as Mother London, better and probably a few even read Mother London first and then went to look at the fantasy. I'm always interested to read peoples' accounts of how they came to my books, though, as Red Arrow says, it's not a debate I can make much of a useful contribution to. My favourite of my fantasy characters is Elric, but I think my favourites of my non-fantasy characters have to be Mrs Cornelius and Joseph Kiss. Given that they once lived so close, it's a shame they never got to meet!
          The reason for offering different demises for characters is to indicate that I am only selecting one strand from one manifestation of the EC.
          There are many others, where Elric had a dull, uneventful life and died of old age, for instance, or where Corum didn't die at the end of the second sequence, but died violently in some other alternative of his world.
          The multiverse is infinite. The stories in it are infinite. Occasionally those stories intersect. What can I say ? I have a complicated brain.

          Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
          The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
          Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


          Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
          The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
          Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

          Comment


          • #6
            There's always been a special place in my heart for the old Krieghund, the graf Ulrich von Bek, :)

            He displays all the logic and pragatism of a Faustus, if not the sense of nihilism also of Hegel and Nietchze, and at times the bravery of Siegmund and his son Siegfried, and at the same time their acceptence of morality and their rejection of laws. In a sense Ulrich is the realization of all that is great about the German people, a self styled Overmann if you will (of course, thats a bad translation, overperson would be nearer to the mark) and he overcomes every incredibly absurd situation he finds himself in. Truely magnificent.

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, of course, von Bek is my tribute to German literature, which is one of the bases of our current proliferation of fantasy, just as Pyat is my version of Simplicissimus. You'll recall Grimmelshausen is discussed in City in the Autumn Stars and those familiar with his pseudonyms will recognise a bit extra there! The Enlightenment fox rules the City from the centre. Hegel and Nietszche also have to be acknowledged in any ongoing story concerning eternal champions and their need to overcome not just the forces of Chaos but their own weaknesses. The inner struggle reflects the outer. All this was debased by Hitler, which makes it harder to debate these days, unless you are familiar with the figures talked about here. The idea of the 'real German', for instance, both self-examining and active in the world.
              These ideas, which developed mostly during the achievement of German nationhood, are always worth considering and debating, especially in our rapidly changing world where it is important to develop a flexible identity without letting go of one's ideals.

              Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
              The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
              Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


              Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
              The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
              Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

              Comment


              • #8
                And people accuse you of writing "just fantasy". ;)

                Comment


                • #9
                  My post above was obviuosly in a time flux, because it said I could not post it several times, but obviuosly posted those said times anyways.
                  What's a guy to do,no?
                  Anyways, thanks for the responce Mr. Moorcock!
                  -Berserker-

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Could I just ask, as an aside Mr. Moorcock, do you prefer to write in 1st or 3rd person? Becasue as a piece of writing, I think perhaps The Dreamthief's Daughter was your finest peice of fantasy writing, and Von Bek always seems a better crafted story and piece of litreature than does your earlier Corum or Elric stories. Is this just because you had grown older and more confident in your abilities or is this down to the stylistic approach. Do you outline your work or is it all spur of the moment. Or a mixture of the two?
                    Keep on voting people!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I read Elric first and still love his stories the best, so I guess I am in the boring old majority. I first encountered the Elric series in paperback form (the silver books with the funny runes on the cover and the beautiful Robert Gould artwork) at the bookstore in my local mall. I read the back covers of all 6 books and my imagination was fired. I then noticed that a friend of mine had the old D&D monster manual with Elric in it (the one that ended up being revised because they used Mr. M.'s material without permission). I was kind of a D&D junkie back then (8th grade) and when I saw that the "hero" of the story was listed as "chaotic evil", I just had to find out what these books were all about. I ended up having a dream about buying the books and that is what prompted me to start reading them. Good thing my mother didn't bother to check what I was reading, she once freaked and took all my books away because I was reading "The Gunslinger" by Stephen King. I think Elric would have really blown her mind.

                      Regarding Corum, I just re-read Count Brass and the Corum books, and I seem to recall in Count Brass that Corum references the fact that he has recently been "dead". My theory is that when he dies at the end of Sword and the Stallion, he probably ends up in some limbo where the Black Ship is waiting to pick him up for his final battle (Agak and Gagak).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
                        There are many others, where Elric had a dull, uneventful life and died of old age, for instance, or where Corum didn't die at the end of the second sequence, but died violently in some other alternative of his world.
                        He... he dies!? Damn!!! (burning books sound).

                        Well, my favorite is Renark (is he an EC?) from the Sundered Worlds.
                        Karl Glogauer and Alan Powys too. Because they had to solve most of their problems without swords or big fights.

                        From the Kill 'em All crew I like a lot the fab 4 (Elric, Hawkmoon, Corum and Erekosأ«) and - of course - Ulric Von Bek.

                        Originally posted by dlackey
                        I just re-read Count Brass and the Corum books, and I seem to recall in Count Brass that Corum references the fact that he has recently been "dead".
                        Please stop... please stop... Nooooooooooo.... (Sound of starting reading faster the remaining books).[/quote]
                        \\

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          well i also read elric first...but he is def. not my favorite, although my affection for him grows with ever reading and i must admit that he was my favorite for a long time

                          i am tempted to say Jerry Cornelius, and i am tempted to say Jack Karaquazian and its quite dificult to pick one as my favorite. if i was cornered i'd probably have to go with Jerry for his style (if nothing else)

                          to me Elric represents a very unrefined, juvenile frustration and angst...while Jerry's is a very adult, complex mindset...something I have encountered many times.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lordmarioh
                            He... he dies!? Damn!!! (burning books sound).
                            Well spare that book from the fire. It actually makes sense when you read it in context.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Tough to tell which eternal champion is my favorite. 8O I'll go with Elric cause, yes, he's the first i've read....and read again. But Hawkmoon's Tragic Millenium is a fantastic plan. And all the Bastable story was so cool to imagine when i've read it!! As a character, i prefer Elric, but for the story, i'm just torn between Hawkmoon, Von Bek, Corum and Bastable.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X