Lord Shark the Unknown and Lord Jagged of Canaria

[Zoxesyr]

(A question about the characters in the End of Time books, not the members on this board)

Why did Lord Jagged create Lord Shark?

Or maybe a better way to phrase the question would be something like this: If I asked Lord Jagged why he created Lord Shark what would his answer be? (or what would his "obfuscation" be?)

In the text Lord Shark is referred to as a being with absolutely no creativity. Is this Jagged's way of criticizing the whole End of Time society? ...or is he making a comment on the nature of the military mindset? Considering Jagged, I can't believe it was a mere fanciful creation on a whim.

...and, what would Jagged's reaction be to Shark's laughter at the end of "White Stars"?

[Michael Moorcock]

Come on, now! What's the point of an ambiguity in a story if you can't answer it how you like ?

[Zoxesyr]

Come on, now! What's the point of an ambiguity in a story if you can't answer it how you like ?

Lord Jagged is a vendor of a particular kind of ambiguity...That is what I am really looking for.

8) :lol:

[xidrep]

Talking of Jagged, some river-dweller just down the towpath from Chez moi, towards Sunbury, has created a piece of gargantuan topiary that is a swan with a bloke riding on it's avian-herbaceous shoulders. It's very like old Jagged on Mrs Amelia Underwood (note attention to nomenclature detail :lol: ). They don't have much to do, I reckon. I'd like to ask about it, but it might be a privet matter. Privet! Geddit??!!

I don't know about Lord Shark (well, who does?) but I've got a dogfish in a tank that looks definitely like a Bored Shark :?

[Anonymous]

The story might have been inspired by Mal Dean's illustration of two guys fighting with fish...
Usually, if there are ambiguities in the story, it's because they're intended.
As someone who can sometimes be an obsessive tie-er up of loose ends,
it's fair to say that either I'm leaving it to the reader's judgement or plan ultimately to write another story.
I've often said I'm not a 'world builder'. Indeed there was no such conception, as such, when I started writing. I'm a story-teller. The details are there either for atmosphere, symbolism or plot reasons.

[Zoxesyr]

If I have offended, I will ask the moderator to delete this string. It certainly wasn't my intent to step on some rule, written or otherwise.

[Doc]

If I have offended, I will ask the moderator to delete this string. It certainly wasn't my intent to step on some rule, written or otherwise.

Speaking for myself, I don't see how you would have offended anyone.

[Zoxesyr]

The story might have been inspired by Mal Dean's illustration of two guys fighting with fish....

8) Ahhhh! That is an ambiguity I can appreciate! I'd love to see any of Mr Dean's work on the End of Time series. I've only seen JC renderings so far.

I've often said I'm not a 'world builder'. Indeed there was no such conception, as such, when I started writing. I'm a story-teller. The details are there either for atmosphere, symbolism or plot reasons.

I've often been most satisfied with the "worldbuilding" in novels where the author took care of the details like the plot and atmosphere, and didn't worry about the worldbuilding as an objective in itself.

Thank you!
:D

[Jagged]

Re: Lord Shark the Unknown and Lord Jagged of Canaria

Why did Lord Jagged create Lord Shark?

Well, I get my morbid moods, too, you know! So sorry I'm not perfect! (Kicks ground, then looks up and realizes people are watching, and immediately straightens the white collar to look as immaculate as ever.)

[Zoxesyr]

Re: Lord Shark the Unknown and Lord Jagged of Canaria

Well, I get my morbid moods, too, you know! So sorry I'm not perfect! (Kicks ground, then looks up and realizes people are watching, and immediately straightens the white collar to look as immaculate as ever.)

My goodness! 8) I never before thought of Lord Shark as "morbid"...Is that one of those "emotions" from the Dawn Ages that Jherek is constantly going on about?

My Lord Jagged has always been the purveyor of the most subtle and incisive humor. Some day you must put on a demonstration of "emotion" for us! It would certainly surpass "Flags" or "Boats"... :lol:

[Anonymous]

I think the illustration was in the original New Worlds version.
If anyone has it, I'm sure there'd be no objection to that page being reproduced.

[Jagged]

Re: Lord Shark the Unknown and Lord Jagged of Canaria

I never before thought of Lord Shark as "morbid"...Is that one of those "emotions" from the Dawn Ages that Jherek is constantly going on about?

My Lord Jagged has always been the purveyor of the most subtle and incisive humor. Some day you must put on a demonstration of "emotion" for us! It would certainly surpass "Flags" or "Boats"... :lol:

:lol: Oh, well, yes that was what I was hinting at, dear Zoxesyr. I agree completely that Lord Shark isn't morbid in himself. Lord Shark, as I see him, isn't anything, he just *is*. But the ACT of creating him certainly had a morbid streak to it. Unless you count his creator as a directly cynical being who considers Shark, as well as Werther, Miss Mavis Ming, Jherek himself, and all the others as mere fictional characters, or pawns in a game. So, unless you think I'd take such a detached view of my fellow End of Time citizens, some would certainly interprete that as a morbid moment... wouldn't they? In fact, I've heard one or two of them mentioning both emotion and morbidity as possible ingredients of subtle and incisive humour (forgive the Brit spelling).

[EDIT: I always thought that Flags was a particularly high point of satire ever, so I won't presume to surpass that. I'll try, though.... what else is there left to do?]

[Zoxesyr]

Re: Lord Shark the Unknown and Lord Jagged of Canaria

But the ACT of creating him certainly had a morbid streak to it. Unless you count his creator as a directly cynical being who considers Shark, as well as Werther, Miss Mavis Ming, Jherek himself, and all the others as mere fictional characters, or pawns in a game.

:D A Fiction! A Game! Splendid Ideas! Perhaps Lord Shark represents a mood like "Cynicism" or "Ennui". Werther and Mongrove insist on performing these so elegantly and consistently for us all. It must have been a delight for them to find a kindred soul in Lord Shark.

The tiresome Miss Ming always claims to be a lost time traveler. Whispers have it that she was thrown out of her time because the people of her time didn't like her very much. I can't blame them.

You are starting titillating rumor that poor Mavis might be another's creation! Who could have done it? Did Dr. Volospion create her in one of his "Lighter" moods? Perhaps Mistress Christia was trying to create her exact opposite?

[EDIT: I always thought that Flags was a particularly high point of satire ever, so I won't presume to surpass that. I'll try, though.... what else is there left to do?]

Lord Jagged, there is Always Something going on in your mind. I think we can expect something Quite Spectacular soon. :D

[Jagged]

Re: Lord Shark the Unknown and Lord Jagged of Canaria

Perhaps Lord Shark represents a mood like "Cynicism" or "Ennui". Werther and Mongrove insist on performing these so elegantly and consistently for us all. It must have been a delight for them to find a kindred soul in Lord Shark.

Now, I doubt very much that either Werther or Mongrove would delight in the thought of being lumped in with Shark. It seems to me that Werther is a lot into Misery, and Mongrove is a lot into Doom, whereas Shark is just... uhm.... howshalliputit, into not being into? I don't know what to call that attitude. "Ennui" may be the closest bet, but still that does have some wilde connotations. Maybe the term Imboredandtheresnothingyoucandotointerestmesoletme dieinpeace may come closer. Always a Pink Floyd addict, I would knock on Shark's head and cry, "Is there anybody IN there?"

You are starting titillating rumor that poor Mavis might be another's creation! Who could have done it?

Oh, dear! People always ask me these questions, like I'm some engineer of intrigues. I just reside at the end of time, and keep a summer cottage in the 21st centure. I'm enjoying my little Multiverse Simulation program at the moment (I tried making George Bush a president of the USA in the early 21st century, which was pretty hilarous), but I certainly am not into the habit of starting rumours!

[Zoxesyr]

Re: Lord Shark the Unknown and Lord Jagged of Canaria

Now, I doubt very much that either Werther or Mongrove would delight in the thought of being lumped in with Shark.

Well Shark does seem resolutely "Un-Lumpable"...and Werther did have that amusing little duel with him over a matter of "honor". Mongrove would no doubt carry on about his vast repertoire of negative attributes, comparing them to Shark's absolute lack of any attributes, positive or negative...

Oh, dear! People always ask me these questions, like I'm some engineer of intrigues.

Yes! Engineer of intrigues, and artist of obfuscation, a diva of diversions!

(I tried making George Bush a president of the USA in the early 21st century, which was pretty hilarous)

Wasn't he the Dawn Age warrior who fought back the Left Hands of Darkness wielding a burning shrubbery, and painting his back the mystic color of green for protection? Then, after drinking the magical potion called "Light Sweet Crude", he declared that he was an infant again and forced his servants to put him in diapers?