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Joe Libertarian - 'new' Heinlein novel

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  • Miqque
    replied
    Gladiator sounds good - gotta read that soon. Also Zelazny's Lamps... - I've read most of the Amber books and enjoyed them very much. (Love that family infighting, it seems SO familiar.) And I love Woody Guthrie - he was a good prose writer, and I can unabashedly recommend Bound for Glory; he has a great author's voice.

    Overall, I really haven't read anyone I totally agree with when it come to societal structure. Guess that's one reason I write, huh? For instance, some of the stuff I and my partner take on in the Mudball series (which quite needs a publisher) are social basics (getting everyone fed and housed), penology (that the study of prisons, ya preverts!) and why they make so much money, pure research as an investment, and of course religion versus society. My/our take on the whole lot is a bit different and has some new solutions along with a bit of plot advancement. (Okay, I admit sinking Japan was just plain fun. I'm still stinging over some aspects of the '80's economic wars.)

    I guess this is why Heinlein was important to me. It's not that I agree with the man (as I've said, in most cases I do not). In most cases though, he got me thinking and focused on the issues. That in and of itself served me well through school, and more so when life demands opinions and actions.

    Now, don't feel left out, Mike. Your tales also inspire(d) me in many other ways, like the use of insight, the power of myth, and actual good solid writing. (Except for The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, RAH rarely used what writing chops he had.) I think two of the basic categories of writers are those who inspire the reader to write like them, and those who inspire readers to write because of them. (And this can be,as you see, either positive [as in more or expounding of the same] or negative [rebuttals and different ideas].) Your writing, Mike, has both elements, so it's a special joy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pietro_Mercurios
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc
    Pull out that copy quickly, Androman! It's a fantastic read on several levels. And Denny Dover might even take your photograph while you're reading it.
    Last time, I stopped reading just before Maddy took hold of the big copper knocker. Tubby certainly throws some Thanksgiving!

    :)

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    You mean Rosie hasn't really taken over the corporate world? I didn't sign up for this world.

    Hopefully Denny has found that peaceful seaside town. Maybe it's on the outskirts of Tanelorn? Right beside of the good foot doctors.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I suppose good taste has stopped anyone mentioning the one bit of fairly accurate prediction in that book, Doc.
    Shortly after it was published I went into hospital and came out with a lot less foot than I went in...
    You probably have to live in a small seaside town now, if you want Denny to take your picture.
    Or at least an ideal world!

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  • Doc
    replied
    Pull out that copy quickly, Androman! It's a fantastic read on several levels. And Denny Dover might even take your photograph while you're reading it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pietro_Mercurios
    replied
    I picked up copies of Theodore Sturgeon's More Than Human, Roger Zelazny's The Doors of His Face, The Lamps of His Mouth and The Early Asimov: Volume 1., at the local recycling shop, today. Which was nice.

    I'm putting them away, on my science fiction bookshelf and getting out King of the City, this weekend. This may be my last chance to read it, before my partner has us remodelling the house.

    :)

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  • Michael Moorcock
    replied
    Don't think so. I came to sf rather late, not liking anything until I read Bester's Tiger! Tiger! I missed most of the classic stuff and came to it too late to enjoy much of it..

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  • Governor of Rowe Island
    replied
    I have heard of Philip Wylie but have never got round to reading any of his work.
    Did you ever read any Stanley G. Weinbaum, Mr. M? I remember reading the 'A Martian Odyssey' collection and being quite impressed with his ideas. Things such as the carry-unit that plugged into the base of you spine so it would follow you over any terrain. The predominance of fungal infections in a jungle shrouded Venus. I think he was very highly regarded in the time leading up to and following his untimely death, but he is largely forgotten now, too.

    Here is some biographical info for anyone interested -

    http://www.gwillick.com/Spacelight/weinbaum.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael Moorcock
    replied
    I tend to prefer an earlier sf writer called Philip Wylie, who is almost forgotten now, though his book Gladiator was the origin of Superman and he put a lot of ideas into the common pot. He and his collaborator also wrote When Worlds Collide and After Worlds Collide. He also did the script for The Island of Doctor Moreau and wrote some interesting 'straight' (ish) novels. In Generation of Vipers, a book which is now considered un-PC because of its attack on 'momism' (which wasn't an attack on women but on American sentimentality) Wylie says that it costs about as much to 'make peace' as it does to 'make war' but that you can drum up more votes by going for war. I quote him, incidentally, in Firing the Cathedral, the Jerry Cornelius story in The Lives and Times of Jerry Cornelius (and also in the anthology Cities). I think he's worth reading. An example of an American radical who was more of the left and influenced all the many left-wing American writers like Pohl & Kornbluth, Sturgeon, Merril, Wollheim and others -- a tradition which seems to have been buried in recent years. Just as the tradition exemplified by Woody Guthrie has been either sentimentalised or forgotten. I'd like to see a revival of that left American tradition, which has its roots in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

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  • Rymdolov
    replied
    Heinlein seems to me to be the ultimate manifestation of the kind of anarchist who thinks that to gun down a thousand starving kids trying to storm a mansion to find food is a valiant defense of "the ultimate manifestation of freedom" (to own private property), while a 0,1 % income tax for the richest 0,1 % of the population to provide clean water for the poor is an atrocity and the worst form of state-bureaucrat-communist repression.

    I also come to think of him every time I see Red Forman in "That seventies show".

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  • Miqque
    replied
    Fuuny thing is that RAH was one of the "important" authors (as in significant in some way) and with whom I never particularly agreed. I find most of his characters cartoonish, as most situations he writes about. The thing is, I'd read many of his juveniles (starting with The Rolling Stones)(which I quickly found was not about a band) and kinda pegged him there. When the teen angst hit it was Christmastime, my dad had just passed, and I was deep into the "is this all there is to life" syndrome. By 'chance', I came across paperbacks of Stranger In A Strange Land and Glory Road. Needless to say, as an introduction ot adult science fiction these were a bit of a jolt after Tunnel In the Sky et al. Cured me once and for all of that particular angst.

    Now it seems I have somehow gotten an education, and many of the political ideas seem quite naive and left in the oppositionist category. My own thing is that if one is going to complain about a problem (or set of problems) bring some sort of solution to the table. (I just refuse to sit there and look stupid when someone asks "So what would you do about it?" I like to have something to offer besides negativity.)

    Even so, it seems the far right and left both have some concept of a basic lack that needs to be filled- that lack being taking care of the basic needs of humans for the bulk of the world population. There have been many proposed solutions (even the communistic style of the early Apostles, where they sold their property to support their own evangelistic community). The problem always seems to boil down to that of a bureaucracy. I think this is the one area where Heinlein and many other just completely lost all sense when they became so outraged at the bureaucrats (and especially the ones with sticky fingers). Heinlein would just as soon shoot a bureaucrat as look at one, and I really can't say I blame him or disagree. The intent (to take care of self and others) is a noble one, yet handling charges somehow invariably go against the grain, as if there is some sort of magic need for those who provide the mechanism of those basic needs should be doing so purely altruistically. Making wages from such a duty somehow taints it.

    I know this is kinda convoluted, but I think that the moral core of the ideas tends to get messed up with the moral demands upon both providers and recipients. Moral evaluation always seems to be the elephant in the room when it comes to social services. There is constant judgment and nosiness going on, but everybody is regulated into some sort of politically correct stance, thus inhibiting pure giving and receipt, and there are "issues". Emotions boil up and get in the way.

    And this is related to Iraq how? Well, the way I figure the dollar cost, every person in America is approaching spending the equivalent of a $200,000 house. The numbers change constantly, but basically we could have fed and housed all the homeless and needy in the whole blasted country with the funds we have so far expended in Iraq.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pietro_Mercurios
    replied
    Originally posted by Doc
    Originally posted by Steeplechaser
    Soddin' anarchists. You can't trust any of them not to liberate your work.... :D
    You mean I was angrier in the 70s ? Haven't you read King of the City?
    Since King of the City was beautifully angry, some people might have missed the venom :D
    To be perfectly honest, I sailed through the first third of King of the City then sort of ground to a halt. Nothing to do with the book, much more to do with being a full time, house-husband. I haven't had the time, or the peace of mind, to sit down and read a book right through, for months and months!

    What I really need is a long sea voyage, with my pile of books and a steady supply of Chateau du Bilges for company ... :(

    Thatcher gets a mention in Mike's StarShip Troopers article, but in 1977 she was still only a hand sized cloud on the horizon. Who could possibly have imagined, back then, just how much that woman and her monetarist, free marketeer, spawn, would alter the British social map? There's more of a sense of warning in the article, less exasperation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Governor of Rowe Island
    replied
    Phew, suddenly so many points I want to answer!

    Originally posted by GuyLawley
    So does this guy, and he's dead. Well, his own web PAGE anyway...

    http://www.legis.state.ia.us/GA/76GA...Cornelius.html
    Is that what Jerry's doing now, Mike?. He seems to have moved into another sphere of late and I must say he scrubs up well. He doesn't look as though he,s enjoying it, though.
    By the way, those press clippings about JC in various of the books - were they real?

    Originally posted by Ant
    They became very popular in Texas... then Billy Gibbons went on to form ZZ Top...
    I've got The Moving Sidewalks 'Flash' on cd. It's a great album. In fact , Billy, on the cover, looks very much like how a dear departed friend of mine once looked.

    Originally posted by AndroMan
    Back in the Sixties, Robert Heinlein was one of the most common authors to be found on the SF shelves in the Children's Section, of our local library. I used to love his stuff, as a pre-teener.
    This is exactly how I came about them (in the '70's), they were about the only things that looked interesting on the shelves of the mobile and local lending libraries. It's nostalgia for my youth really, but I have to admire (and critics have mentioned it, which is why I recognise it) his ability to create a society one is familiar with in a few paragraphs.
    The movie adaption of 'Starship Troopers' captures his gung ho attitude to the Vietnam war, while actively portraying the way the officially presented face of the US was perceived by many outside of it when the film was released.
    I though it was quite enjoable escapist bollocks, too. (Unlike the follow up, which was weird escapist bollocks.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Doc
    replied
    Originally posted by Steeplechaser
    Soddin' anarchists. You can't trust any of them not to liberate your work.... :D
    You mean I was angrier in the 70s ? Haven't you read King of the City?
    Since King of the City was beautifully angry, some people might have missed the venom :D

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael Moorcock
    replied
    Soddin' anarchists. You can't trust any of them not to liberate your work.... :D
    You mean I was angrier in the 70s ? Haven't you read King of the City?
    We all read terrible stuff when we're young. I never could get on with Enid Blyton but I have friends who did. Again, her class assumptions upset me. Maybe that's why I preferred Edith Nesbit, who was an early Fabian.
    I have the same trouble with 'classic' detective story writers like Christie and Co. Full of conscious and unconscious snobbery. Not something I find in Allingham, whom I like (esp. Tiger in the Smoke).
    But then Orwell predicted that I'd grow up a raging fascist from reading the Greyfriars stories in the Magnet. Somehow those and Burroughs's
    racism didn't seem to take very well.... :)

    Leave a comment:

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