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  • #31
    I think having this conversation under the heading "KKK" is a bit unseemly, and probably biased seeming to some people, like it's a comment on the Ferguson PD or something.

    Even if the KKK (and some KKK SPLITTERS!) are involved http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...police-officer

    Note: I've posted some stuff about this over in "The State We're In" but, really, given the magnitude and contentious nature of the subject it probably deserves its own thread.

    Anyway, since this is here:
    Originally posted by krakenten View Post
    ...
    This is one good reason for more cameras on our streets. Dash cams and other public safety systems have caught a lot of very bad coppers.
    ...
    "...after [body] cameras were introduced in February 2012, public complaints against officers plunged 88% compared with the previous 12 months. Officers' use of force fell by 60%."
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...plaints-rialto

    And while I'm at it: "'They look like guys playing army': an expert on policing in conflict zones talks Ferguson"
    http://www.vox.com/2014/8/14/6002917...nterview-fritz
    Last edited by Heresiologist; 08-20-2014, 02:09 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Heresiologist View Post
      I think having this conversation under the heading "KKK" is a bit unseemly, and probably biased seeming to some people, like it's a comment on the Ferguson PD or something.
      Well that was kind of my intention.

      But I am trying to make sense of this which is why I bumped this conversation in the first place.

      Consider the facts:
      • A black kid gets killed by cops every 28 hours in the US
      • Ferguson is an overwhelmingly black district
      • The Ferguson PD is something like 98% white
      • The protests have been peaceful since the very beginning ("hands up don't shoot")

      The Ferguson PD response to the news of the alleged murder has been to stonewall any requests for info (the kid's autopsy was paid for privately - he was shot six times, once in the head from above ) and to meet any protest or attempts to report on the situation with overwhelming force.

      Granted this may be because the PD is full of blockheads who want to play with their new military gear and compensate for whatever feelings of insecurity they may have etc.

      But if you pull back and look at the Governor's response, ie nothing until a few days later with his patronising speech (as per your John Oliver link in the other thrad) and the imposing of a curfew.

      And after the curfew was lifted and after 10 days of unrelenting brutality, as illustrated nicely by this satirical Clickhole piece (satire seems to be the only rational response to this situation), the Republican Lt Governor, in language that recalls the KKK characters in The Laughter of Carthage, calls for justice to be served through "the centuries old Anglo-American jurisprudence tradition" of "Anglo American civilisation" -- as opposed to "African American" protests no doubt.

      And of course, the media and Obama meanwhile have been as pusilanimous and useless respectively as usual.

      This is a big news story because it encapsulates the drama of being black in America -- as if all the Civil Rights gains of the 60s were for nothing -- but I can't help but feel that the spectre of the KKK looms over it all, if not in fact then surely as the most appropriate symbol.
      Last edited by Chris T; 08-21-2014, 02:14 PM. Reason: Not every month but every *28 hours*

      Comment


      • #33
        Cliven Bundy vs. Ferguson’s peaceful demonstrators: A tale of two protests

        Comment


        • #34
          Well if this is where you want to have the conversation, fine with me. (Not that I've been doing anything more than posting links I find interesting.)

          Fines and court fees are the second largest revenue source for Ferguson (http://marginalrevolution.com/margin...rs-prison.html). For some reason I think it likely that a certain 67% of the community is paying a disproportionate share of those fines.

          Anyway, this might be the start of a step in the right direction:
          https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...amera/8tlS5czf

          Some of you USians might want to consider signing.
          Last edited by Heresiologist; 08-22-2014, 12:51 AM.

          Comment


          • #35
            And now we see some doubts raised about the autopsy.

            No doubt an investigation is needed into this town, but the St. Louis area is rife with crime and violence. In very disorderly areas, it can be difficult to recruit officers, because so few locals can pass a backround check.

            The nanny state, unintended consequences, corrupt/incompentant officials, that's where you look for problems like this.

            "Everything not compulsory is forbidden!" ,and some will wonder that people chafe?

            In the end, there will be some hard truths discovered.

            Comment


            • #36
              A better nanny State might be better off pouring money into better training and pay and demanding a higher standard of education for its officers.

              Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
              The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
              Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


              Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
              The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
              Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

              Comment


              • #37
                It's been tried-it crashed like the Hindenberg.

                Being a copper plain stinks. Scapegoated by the public, subject to the whims of sklinflint politicians and idiot supervisors(you just have no idea of the craziness tolerated from ranking police.)

                Educated police quickly locate better jobs and booger!

                What a copper works for is that pension and the bennies. Putting up with all the lunacy and the endless interference from simpletons, you fix your eye on that magic 25 and pray for the possibility of a 66 2/3 disability. Retired, you have lifetime medical coverage and an income that can allow you to try other work.

                Policemen and women are strangers in their own homes-the neighborhood isn't so welcoming any more. The draconian domestic violence rules make having a relationship very hazardous. The bosses hate the thought of not being able to crush you at a moment's notice, so having another job on the side is less than ideal.

                That little department seems to have had a couple of real loonies. The man at the center of this might turn out to be innocent-fighting a gun-snatcher in a auto is going to get somebody hurt. But the guy who aimed a rifle at the crowd was a type I know well-and good riddance, too.

                Tyrants and crazies have to go-be they teachers, police ,beaureaucrats or supervisors. I never saw anything but harm come of their actions, and trust me, I've seen more than a few.

                That town bids fair to be a typical villiage tyranny. Or, perhaps it just had a bad night.

                But it reminds me of the terrible riots in York PA-I saw them up close, and woe betide this little town.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Fair enough but I did say 'better pay' - to keep them in the service. Believe me I know what little fiefdoms in US policing are like and the militarization of cops (thanks HS) hasn't helped since this puts resources into the hands of already suspect individuals without appropriate training. Then there's the symbolism of what happened... There are plenty of examples of improved policing in the US. We should surely try to learn from those.

                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                  The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                  Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                  The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                  Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Bumping this thread again to bring your attention to this interesting historical piece at the Gizmodo site:
                    Oregon Was Founded As a Racist Utopia

                    When Oregon was granted statehood in 1859, it was the only state in the Union admitted with a constitution that forbade black people from living, working, or owning property there. It was illegal for black people even to move to the state until 1926. Oregon's founding is part of the forgotten history of racism in the American west...

                    "What's useful about Oregon as a case study is that Oregon was bold enough to write it down," Imarisha told me. "But the same ideology, policies, and practices that shaped Oregon shaped every state in the Union, as well as this nation as a whole."
                    In relation to our discussion of the KKK's infiltration of police departments it has this to say for the 1920s:

                    High ranking members of the Klan would meet with high ranking politicians in the state on matters of public policy. And we have the photos to prove it.

                    ....

                    But the Klan's presence in Oregon was far from a secret, even in the 1920s. Not only were the hooded cowards meeting with law enforcement, they were advising them on what they'd like to accomplish — all while getting their picture in the newspaper. As the Telegram would report, the Portland police department was "full to the brink with Klansmen."
                    This photo of Obama addressing supporters in Oregon is salient:

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      As I recall from the research I did for The Laughter of Carthage Oregon had a Jewish chapter called something like The Purple Knights of the Red Robe. The Klan was for a while bigger in the West and Midwest than in the South.

                      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                      The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                      Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                      The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                      Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I come from what was once a serious clan bastion-there are still fervent clan believers in York County PA.

                        The Eastern Hammerskins had a presence there, and various signs and stickers related to Panzerfaust Records were once a coimmon sight.

                        But these people are marginal sorts,and as the industrial jobs dry up, they go away.

                        My home town,Red Lion, is turning pikey even as we speak, and houses are difficult to find paying tenants for. The center of town,once quite active, is now mostly deserted.At least, there are plenty of laces to park or the few remaining businesses.

                        The Klan has little clout any more-it probably would have died years ago, save or the dues aid by FBI informers.

                        This is not to say that racists no longer exist,it's just that they have changed form.

                        More attention should be paid to the black and Hispanic race baiters, ever ready to riot if they don't get their way. Yeah,Al Sharpton, I'm looking at you.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Michael Moorcock View Post
                          As I recall from the research I did for The Laughter of Carthage Oregon had a Jewish chapter called something like The Purple Knights of the Red Robe. The Klan was for a while bigger in the West and Midwest than in the South.
                          The pressure to conform must have been great. It's interesting that they were given their own group, separate and distinct..

                          Meanwhile the Klan has reared its ugly head in public again and in Mississippi no less:

                          KKK issues “call to arms” over Alabama same-sex marriage ruling

                          The hate group melts down after a federal court rules an amendment banning same-sex marriage unconstitutional

                          Keegan Hankes, Southern Poverty Law Center

                          In a latest attempt to capitalize on political and racial controversy, a Ku Klux Klan faction from Mississippi has initiated a “Call to arms in Alabama” in response to federal courts ruling that an amendment to the state constitution banning same-sex marriage was unconstitutional.

                          The post, which appeared on the United Dixie White Knights’ (UDWK) website and later on [a forum] — the largest online white supremacist forum — championed Alabama Supreme Court Justice Roy Moore for defying federal courts and called for Klansmen to leave their robes behind and take to the streets in protest.

                          “The Mississippi Klan salutes Alabama’s chief justice Roy Moore, for refusing to bow to the yoke of Federal tyranny,” Brent Waller, the UDKW’s imperial wizard, wrote in a [fourm post] “The fudge packers from Hollywood and all major news networks are in shock that the good people from the heart of Dixie are resisting their Imperialist, Communist Homosexual agenda!”

                          Waller’s reason for his fellow Klansman to wear plain clothes is simple. “We have made the decision that we don’t want to distract attention away from the issue, as anytime the Klan rides, we are made the issue by the zionist controlled media,” he wrote. Not that wearing robes and hoods has been a consideration before.
                          Hyperlinks and name of horrible forum removed.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            For those who never noticed, the KKK draws much of its symbolism from the night riders of Ireland.

                            There were several groups like the White Boys- who wore women's clothing and powdered their faces and hair with flour(to foil identification)and the dreaded 'Peep- o-Day Boys', who loved to inflict pitchcappings and floggings.

                            Both sides used these tactics.

                            The Klan can be plainly seen in these organizations. The overdone and silly Klan customs are derived from the Freemasons. Ever wonder why it's called the Scottish Rite? Jacobites rejoice! "DeMolay, thou art avenged!" Yeah, right.

                            The burning cross was a Scottish clan's call to arms.

                            And while Bedford Forrest was a military genius, do remember he was an illiterate slave dealer. He had a lot of help organizing the Knights of the Golden Begonia(or whatever) into the first Klan.

                            Now, we hear of the Klan going plain-clothes.

                            (want a good laugh at the expense of the Klan? Get hold of 'O Brother, Where Art Thou'! "What kind of a man would use the Confederate flag for a miss-ile!'" The music is great, too.)

                            Comment


                            • #45
                              Those were great days for secret societies-my grandfather belonged to several in his youth. It was a way of maintaining some sort of social identity in a time when many workers were itinerant.

                              End up in a strange city? Head for the lodge hall, you're among friends. Like Facebook with no electricity. Sic transit and all that.

                              Most of that has withered away, here in Baltimore, the headquarters of the Oddfellows Lodge(founded here) is now a bank branch. I've been inside, it must have been magnificent, once.

                              Those days are gone. The Moose, the Eagles, the Elks, all of them glorified beer saloons and restaurants.

                              The Klan would be long gone, it was dues paid by FBI snitches that kept them solvent. Their pathetic plots were allowed to progress until there was a case for the prosecuter to trumpet during an election year.

                              James Lee Burke points out the dual nature of the Klan-how the local people would first approve, then despise them. A lot like bikers or criminal gangs-and a lot like the Tongs or Yakuza.

                              Useful idiots, and disposable tools, once, now mostly wandering ghosts.

                              As you did deeper into this stuff, "the Illuminatus Trilogy" starts to make sense. Justified Ancients of Mummu, you say? Esoteric Order of Dagon? John Dillinger Society?

                              Dark corners full of dust and vermin, old, broken things that nobody can identify any more.

                              And thus do we return to the Land of Lovecraft.

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