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  • #16
    When I was researching the Klan (see The Laughter of Carthage) Linda's mother remembered that her father-in-law, an insurance agent, used to be in the Klan. L's dad coulod remember playing with his robes and hood.
    As you say, the Klan was almost a social club (esp in places like Mississippi where they had 'no trouble' from AfroAmericans) and many were recruited via the Scottish Rites, Orange Lodge and similar masonic and Christian organisations -- which people joined for the business contacts. These were mostly anti-Catholic in tone and people will recall that the Pope was the main enemy in many parts of the US with a lot of conspiracy theories drifting around in response to the large Irish and Italian immigration. The only state to elect a Klan governor was Indiana!

    Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
    The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
    Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


    Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
    The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
    Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

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    • #17
      Actually, a Klansman governor in Indiana is almost natural. Many black men flocked to the steel mills for good paying work(the knaves!) and the locals didn't like it.

      The same thing happened in Baltimore, where Jim Crow was better known than 'The Raven'

      When the jobs began to go, fulminating hatred was already a fact of life.

      Racism is not about skin color, it's about money, power and a desire to keep things always the same, which is impossible.As I age, the changes I've seen continue to amaze and confound me.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by krakenten View Post
        Racism is not about skin color, it's about money, power and a desire to keep things always the same, which is impossible.As I age, the changes I've seen continue to amaze and confound me.
        You're right Krakenten, and it's rearing its ugly head in the UK at the moment.

        As the country rumbles along the bottom of a pretty shitty recession, people become increasingly afraid that their world is changing in ways that they cannot control and that the changes are eroding their traditional way of life and their sense of security.

        Over the last decade many Eastern European people have moved to the UK for a better life. The vast majority of them are ordinary, hard working, honest people and many take minimum wage jobs that local people see as below them. This is no different from the post-war influx of people from the Caribbean and Indian sub-continent in the ‘50s and ‘60s and this country has a long and proud history of accepting their like with open arms. It’s one of the things that makes us great, in my opinion.

        Unfortunately, some elements of The Press spread fear and loathing across middle England by highlighting the rogues amongst the newcomers and suddenly every decent Pole is demonised. The Daily Mail and The Express are the worst at this. Their recent forecasts of doom about Romanians and Bulgarians flooding the country, picking pockets, begging and claiming dole once their border restrictions are lifted is nothing short of naked racism and plays on the fears of those who are too insular or too frightened to think for themselves. The lines of “coming over here taking our jobs” and “coming over here claiming our dole” are being trotted out ad nauseam and swallowed whole by the sheep that take those rags seriously.

        This is fuelling the rise of the Right in the UK. Thankfully, we’re a fairly moderate bunch on the whole and the Right here is a much less well organised or foaming at the mouth movement than we see in other parts of Europe.

        It’s down to us to keep them at bay.

        Oh, and here’s another timely DM article about the KKK - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-dies-82.html

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        • #19
          The right-wing press in the UK are a whole lot worse than whores. They incite people to murder. And they give murderous terrorists an excuse to murder in an horrific carousel. Ignorance is a castle not easily stormed.
          Aggressive ignorance (as I'm experiencing directly at the moment in Texas) is an army not easily defeated. But every person who stands against it is part of a potentially larger and more successful army.

          Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
          The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
          Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


          Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
          The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
          Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

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          • #20
            Aryan Brotherhood of Texas

            ... Prisons are hostile environments' says former Texas prison warder and gang expert Terry Pelz. "We lock up a lot of people and we have a lot of racial hostility within prison. That's why these gangs form...
            The line previous having been
            ...Initially, their primary purpose was to offer protection from attack ...
            I might be prone to argue that the emergance of such gang cultures within the US penal system was directly due to the utter disregard those in authority had for those in their care. You reap what you sow.

            Comment


            • #21
              Gangs in general form as defensive organizations, then become predatory. The Latin Kings were formed to help Hispanic workers in Detroit be safe from resentful natives. Jews mobbed up be safe in NYC, the residents hated them as 'Christ killers', and were most unkind.

              Motorcycle gangs formed to help bikers find others to ride with, motorists were wont to run them off the road, next step was to be expected, the emergence of the 1% outlaw clubs.

              From the street to the jailhouse, back to the street, the gangster's progress is as predictable as a comet.

              Every culture has a criminal fringe, and some of them are pretty extreme.

              Comment


              • #22



                Bumping this thread given what is happening in Ferguson, Missouri right now.

                Having recently read The Laughter of Carthage and reading about what has been happening there the last nine days--ie cops attacking unarmed civilians (and tear gassing whole black neighbourhoods for good measure) protesting the murder of an unarmed kid by a cop, instead of just doing the obvious and arresting the murderer--I can't help feeling that Missouri must be run by the KKK.

                Would this be correct? Or is this what a rather naive outsider would think because this is just another example of exactly how racist the mainstream US is?


                Originally posted by Michael Moorcock View Post
                The movie has nothing to do with Walter Scott's novel, incidentally, though Walter Scott's versions of history DO have something to do with the mythology of the American South.
                Please do tell.

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                • #23
                  For me it is too sad to discuss. As are the militarized police attacking their fellow citizens. The slideshow tells all:
                  http://news.yahoo.com/police-protest...071214374.html

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                  • #24
                    And how quick we are to lynch...

                    This case has not been investigated yet, and somehow, it's already murder and justifies rioting, looting and arson.

                    Not buying.

                    The attitude of the department's leadership is suspicious-long experience with police departments has taught me that many of them are rotten to the core, and that nothing is ever done until there is a crisis. Then the guilty retire with pensions and the rest of the department tries to deal with the mess.

                    Too many American police departments are run by people who served in the old drafted army, where brutality was the norm (all of the services were tainted by this, and it's taking a long time to work it's way out of the culture) Many of the ranking offices in small and even large departments are real savages who rose to the top by intimidation, and by being willing to 'bend' the rules to please politicians.

                    Truth is unknown in many of these organizations. Tyrants do not like the truth.

                    Sheriff's offices are even worse, as a rule-remember the boss has to stand for election.

                    The police are underfunded where it counts-they have high powered weapons that will never get to the scene in time because of security measures, but they lack practical uniforms, good communications and decent vehicles.

                    And the individual officer is treated like scum. Loathed by the public, abused by the bosses, ignored by the courts-any wonder some of them jump the rails?

                    And we must not forget the population of this peachy town, hair triggered to riot at the least provocation. Perhaps they have some cause, I do not know. I do know that riots harm the innocent and enrich the guilty.

                    What I do know is that American Law enforcement is due for a shake up, and that the old way has failed. Look for scads of impractical reforms proposed by schoolhouse smart-alecs who never pushed a radio car through a hostile slum. They will crunch numbers, things will get worse.

                    Why? the Drug Prohibition and the hysterical reaction of the middle class-who will gladly surrender their freedoms to be safe from the latest imaginary threat.

                    Want to cut crime? Regulate the drug trade, the thugs and gunslingers will never be able to run an actual business. The drug addicts(who are the real problem)will either get straight of kill themselves with dope-seems to be what they want, and all our efforts otherwise have come to naught.

                    With the example of alcohol prohibition before us, we must realize that the perfectly regulated (and utterly docile) population they dream of crushing underfoot is not a happening thing.

                    The Nanny State will be a living Hell. These bloodless skells dream of a lockstep world where everyone is all about making them money and serving their wishes. Some of them nasty indeed! They want everyone to be quiet or working for them. Rat-baggery run riot!

                    Some may mock me-let them review the history of the past two decades.
                    Then let them KMRIA.

                    And remember, don't let it be too much like right!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      You never wore a badge to one of these shindigs. I have.

                      Those cops are fighting for their lives in a revolt. Maybe they asked for it I've seen some very bad police departments. But I never saw any good criminals.

                      Aux armes, citoyens? But you guys say the citoyens ought not avez armes?

                      Just what do you want, bunkie? I doubt that any of the respectable folk of this town are throwing Irish confetti and bogside doodlebugs at the police.
                      Everybody here is against violence, right? Or only against violence they don't like?

                      Inquiring minds want to know!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I cant understand why after 5 bullets and an attempt to surrender a 6th bullet was necessary to the head. Was it to ensure silence?

                        My point is why are police more heavily armored and armed than the US Army in Iraq? Enough already. Do the public who they supposedly serve even want this? As a child I thought I could ask a policeman for help and directions, now I feel very unsafe and intimidated in their presence.

                        http://news.yahoo.com/guide-military...162002165.html

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          There is need for reform in the US ''criminal justice system''.

                          I doubt it will come any time soon.

                          American police are an army of occupation in most places. They enforce bewildering and illogical laws on an unruly population(the underclass) as the truth-the US standard of living is deteriorating rapidly-dawns.

                          As the middle class shrinks, perhaps it would be wise to remember that revolution comes ,not when people don't have,but when someone tries to take what they do have away.

                          I don't understand what's up in Missouri. Could just be summer heat and restless lowlifes letting their hatred of authority boil over-or, there may be just cause.

                          The high-handed conduct of too many agencies is beginning to gall even the middle class. Too many cops have begun to treat everyone like a scumbag.

                          Bad laws and a failure to weed out bad officials.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Oh, yes, and what does the KKK have to do with this?

                            Looks to me kike a local tyranny gone over the edge, or perhaps, one of those ugly situations that the police sometimes end up in.

                            The front seat of a car is a very poor place for a gunfight, and if the subject did try for a gun grab, well, that falls out as it will-shame on him!

                            As for why people get shot so often, gunfights are not orderly affairs. Things happen.

                            There is the positive aspect that we are beginning to realize that we have too many bad cops, too many bad laws and noit a great deal of good sense around.

                            The cop may have been wrong. We'll see.

                            But rioters are ALWAYS wrong! That community will be suffering the after effects of this for decades. After the Rodney King riots, there were many communities that had no markets in walking distance for years. The area I live in was never hit hard by riots(Baltimore has been calm for quite some time-used to be almost anything could have people out looting. A few small neighborhood stores are opening again-and doing well. We have a supermarket, too.) but it's almost a 'food desert' except for fried chicken.

                            One does not reform the police by burning down homes and businesses. A lot of people are getting hurt, and for what purpose?

                            Too many people assume the worst and resort to violence any time the police use force.

                            Let me give an example...Two detectives went to a ritzy neighborhood to arrest a 63 year old woman on an order signed by a judge. She was shot and killed.

                            She was white and affluent. There was no riot.

                            Truth was, she was a profoundly disturbed paranoid schizophrenic. Her house was full of booby traps and hidden weapons.

                            She had rigged the lights so she could shut them all off in a second. She was also 6'3", in very good condition from regular workouts, and a terror to her neighbors.

                            It was soon realized that the situation was unavoidable, and that woman caused it.

                            Let's get all the facts before anyone gets demonized, and let us insist that the guilty suffer.

                            That's the American Way.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I cited this Police brutal killing of a polish man coming to stay with his mother as a reason why I left Canada, although the rest of the world is also the same. I wrote a letter to our local MP to tell him this is unacceptable:

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_...Taser_incident

                              I cannot accept police behaving like thugs.
                              Last edited by Tales from Tanelorn; 08-20-2014, 06:14 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I'm sure that Canada was crushed.

                                So, let's see...a cop in Canada used what you call excessive force, therefore, you leave the country. There is a controversial police shooting in Missouri, and that justifies rioting, looting and arson-long before any facts are presented or verified.

                                OK.

                                Some journalists got roughed up by the coppers-or so they say. Again, where are the FACTS?

                                Is this an out of control police department? Phenix City, outside ma major US Army base was so corrupt that the State Governor put the place under martial law, is this place as bad?

                                We need facts, not the reflexive (all cops are monsters)reaction of a few people. And not the whingeing of some local no-goods-they will gladly lie about anything the police do-they saw it all!

                                This is one good reason for more cameras on our streets. Dash cams and other public safety systems have caught a lot of very bad coppers.

                                BTW, bad police like the big lie technique-they indulge in behavior so outragous that the person who reports them often gets put in a loony ward.

                                Time for an overhaul?

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