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law as a good thing

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  • law as a good thing

    Has there ever been one of MM's books that dealt with LAW as the correct solution to the drama. I am sure Chaos can't be right every time and every situation. Don't get me wrong I love the Elric books but is Von Bek not a servant of Law? and wouldn't he be opposed to Elric? There must be a few tales where the Gaynor aspect is heroic and in the right?
    yes?
    no?
    dust?
    anyone?
    no?
    dust?
    anyone?
    "What do you think you're doing? This is a closed set!"

  • #2
    Hawkmoon was for Law wasn't he?
    Law and Chaos are really as bad as each other when taken to extremes, as it says in the books. Obviously thats why the Balance is so important.

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    • #3
      Yes, Chaos is rarely shown as "the solution". Law and Chaos are both wrong when taken to the extremes and the Balance is the only hope for the Multiverse. Gaynor is not particularly a servant of Law so much as a destructive extremist out for himself, he has "served" both lords of Law and Chaos at various times in an effort to grab as much power as he can.

      Elric began as a servant of Chaos, more by birth than choice, though obviously he chooses to serve every time he summons Arioch to save his ass. Nonetheless, in the end he chose to defy Chaos and destroy his own realm to preserve the Balance, which is apparently the real reason he is the Eternal Champion.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by HawkLord
        Hawkmoon was for Law wasn't he?
        Law and Chaos are really as bad as each other when taken to extremes, as it says in the books. Obviously thats why the Balance is so important.
        Hawkmoon, I think you’ll find, served the Runestaff, which in turn served the Cosmic Balance (see the closing chapters of The Quest for Tanelorn for details).

        Corum did the bidding of Arkyn of Law quite a bit, didn’t he? And opposed the Chaos Lords / Sword Rulers pretty comprehensively.

        We would all agree, I'm sure, that either side taken to extremes is A Bad Thing. Doesn't someone somewhere in the Moorcock Canon say something like: "Let us oppose the stagnation of Law, and create cohesion out of Chaos?"

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        • #5
          All I can dredge up from my memory banks is something in Stormbringer about how Chaos also leads to a form of stagnation because everyone shoots off in random directions, ever-changing, and so nothing is ever achieved. It was an argument that tended in Law's favour, but I think it came around the point where Elric's world was literally falling apart, so you can understand why he might have some issues with his former patrons.

          Of course, as stated above, by the end of the series he is certainly a more Balance-orientated fellow.
          "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild

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          • #6
            Well, ideally Law and Chaos in Balance is what I generally aim for in the resolution of an EC tale.
            I probably make the final contribution to the debate in The White Wolf's Son, which will see a number of old characters brought together for the last time. For me there's a final conversation with St Odhran which more or less sums up my views on the matter. John Davey will be including an extract from this book in the next Time Centre Times, available to Nomads of the Time Streams.

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            • #7
              If I remember rightly, was Hawkmoon's world one where the land was riddled with Law? And the world of Corum's second trilogy?

              I actually find these depictions scarier than when Chaos is the dominant force...
              Call me cockey, but if there\'s an alien I can\'t kill, I haven\'t met him and killed him yet!

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              • #8
                Having read most of MM's stories I find this subject the most interesting of all. It strikes at the heart of existence for me. Chaos and Order(Law) are like all pairs of opposites, there never is one without the other. The nature of Michael's stories and what makes them engaging is the constant struggle between the two.

                In my mind however balance always exists. What can sometimes appear to be Chaos is infact Law in a state of flux. Ultimate Law on the other hand brings its own form of chaos. As with all forms of existence a state is only what it appears to be. It is perception that makes something so.

                The fusion of all opposites takes you to the heart of all creation. After this big bang all pairs of opposites form to make stories of The Multiverse an infinite source of fascination.

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                • #9
                  Balance

                  Extremes of any kind are bad.

                  With extreme law and order comes stagnation and the inability to innovate or adapt.

                  Extreme chaos eliminates the ability to progress since chaos is in an everchanging state of flux.

                  Balance has always been an important part of my personal philosophy, and in my own writing the concept of a cross-dimensional balance is key, sort of like a plate spinning on a rod, like you see circus performers doing.

                  Each aspect can have good and bad sides. When I was thirteen and writing my first AD&D campaign I created a Balance scheme that regulated how the gods handled their affairs on earth. Then I read Mr. Moorcock's Elric books and found a similar philosophy regarding the balance between law and chaos. I always considered balance a very reasonable philosophy and have for more than a decade now attempted to live my own life in balance and keep ready to recognize when the balance is tipping either way.

                  Which is why I am so at odds with extremists in politics and religion, but THAT is a whole other can of beans.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Balance

                    Originally posted by ElricJColvill
                    Which is why I am so at odds with extremists in politics and religion, but THAT is a whole other can of beans.
                    Wishing not to stir things but very much in danger of doing such; it is my view that extremist are like yeast in the bread, they cause us to rise. I am very much aware that should I be faced with a situation where extremists endanger the lives of my loved ones my anger would overtake me. However, philosophising from a distance our greatest lessons are had in extreme circumstances.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The New One
                      In my mind however balance always exists. What can sometimes appear to be Chaos is infact Law in a state of flux. Ultimate Law on the other hand brings its own form of chaos.
                      This reminds me of the I Ching - yin and yang - two 'opposites' each bearing the seed of each other with a tendency to become unstable and swap over. Interesting.
                      \"...an ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell

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