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Matrix and Mike

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    Anonymous

    Matrix and Mike

    I was just wondering, after flicking through the posts, and seeing how good some of the discussion on this Forum are, what do people think of The Matrix Trilogy? I was watching the 3rd one (Revolutions0 yesterday and, though I enjoyed it, I don't understand the ending at all! Same thing happened with the 2nd one (Reloaded) though after 4 viewings I actually began to appreciate what was actually going on and began to get a better feel for the Trilogy overall. I think it is better then the press it recieved may leas people to believ and I think some of the philosophical ideas espoused are quite perplexing and provocative. What do other persons think? Especially, are there any links to Mike's work??
  • Bob
    Bob
    Defender of the Runestaff
    • Dec 2003
    • 327

    #2
    At the time, I greatly enjoyed the original move. I still rate it as a fine slab of sci-fi. The sequels however, did nothing for me apart from annoy me. I don't know, I just couldn't cope with all the 'I know, because I'm supposed to know' nonsense. They felt, to me, like completely trivial add-ons.

    Apologies for sounded so negative, but you did ask. :)
    Call me cockey, but if there\'s an alien I can\'t kill, I haven\'t met him and killed him yet!

    Comment

    • McTalbayne
      Eternal Companion
      • Jan 2004
      • 557

      #3
      I have yet to hear anything good from ANYONE about pt. 3 so i have yet to see it.
      It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.

      Comment

      • DukexArioch
        Corsair of the Second Ether
        • Oct 2004
        • 83

        #4
        Originally posted by Bob
        At the time, I greatly enjoyed the original move. I still rate it as a fine slab of sci-fi. The sequels however, did nothing for me apart from annoy me. I don't know, I just couldn't cope with all the 'I know, because I'm supposed to know' nonsense. They felt, to me, like completely trivial add-ons.

        Apologies for sounded so negative, but you did ask. :)
        Yup, that's pretty much my opinion also. :)

        #3 was vaguely better than #2 for the sole reason it that it had big shooty gun sequences. :D
        Regret achieves nothing. Regret breeds weakness. Regret is a cancer which attacks the body's vital organs and eventually destroys.

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        • liar_on_high
          Sailor on the Seas of Fate
          • Nov 2004
          • 74

          #5
          The first one was decent. The rest were sorry excuses for special effects expositions and pointless fight scenes.
          Nothing to see here, move along.
          Another thing that bothered me was how the matrix was heralded as this wild new concept when William Gibson, Neal Stephenson, and other writers of that genre had been exploring similar ideas for quite awhile before.

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          • TheEighthSon
            Citizen of Tanelorn
            • Sep 2004
            • 211

            #6
            I'll be honest. I liked them, but I like a lot of stuff. I watch stuff for what it is, and don't always feel the need to critique every little detail- that's what film critics are for, and that's why I view the majority of their opinions while the toilet bowl is flushing... Most of the time if a critic says it's crap, it'll be brilliant, and vice versa, as far as my tastes go anyway. That said, every now and then they seem to have passable opinions! :lol:

            The first was great, the other two were well above average as far as I was concerned. I would have liked a little more... something... in the last one, but it wasn't disappointing in any way. Then again, I think I 'got it' more than a lot of people I know, but that may be because I've been working on a novel project and have been in a very 'epic' mindset for a few years or so while developing background and such... That, and I didn't have a cinema full of people watching it alongside me, muttering and rattling coke cans and rustling crisp packets and 'forgetting' to turn phones off (I've yet to visit a cinema where people actually sit and watch a film)...

            Depends on what you want and why you watch films and such. The only thing I'd say is watch it and decide for yourself whether you like it or not.

            Another thing that bothered me was how the matrix was heralded as this wild new concept when William Gibson, Neal Stephenson, and other writers of that genre had been exploring similar ideas for quite awhile before.
            Have William Gibson, Neal Stephenson, and other writers of that genre who had been exploring similar ideas for quite awhile before, had a highly successful movie trilogy, plus game and other related merchandising lines, created from their work? Well, I suppose in a way they have... :lol: :lol: :lol:

            What was my point again? Seriously, I came here with an intent to say something, but I've drawn a complete blank... But I've typed this out, so it'd be a shame not to post it! :P

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            • liar_on_high
              Sailor on the Seas of Fate
              • Nov 2004
              • 74

              #7
              Originally posted by TheEighthSon
              Have William Gibson, Neal Stephenson, and other writers of that genre who had been exploring similar ideas for quite awhile before, had a highly successful movie trilogy, plus game and other related merchandising lines, created from their work? Well, I suppose in a way they have... :lol: :lol: :lol:

              What was my point again? Seriously, I came here with an intent to say something, but I've drawn a complete blank... But I've typed this out, so it'd be a shame not to post it! :P
              Oh yes I clearly forgot that more $'s = better.

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              • Guest's Avatar
                Anonymous

                #8
                After the first time that I saw the third movie I would have agreed with you all. As a spiritual individual, a buddhist actually, I found that the first two movies had a very buddhist message, but there was still always one problem. Watching the third movie because of the prolific message of the first two I was waiting for an enlightening ending, one that would guide me down some path I hadn't previously looked down, my own personal rabbit hole. At the end though I was left confused and wanting. I felt like the ending was incomplete and a falsehood, just thrown together when they couldn't come up with anything better.

                However, upon a later, second viewing it occured to me. The problem that I'd always felt needed answering was that they were always fighting, and that is very much against the message of peace that a pacifist buddhist would follow. Then when I saw the ending again it all clicked into place. Neo stopped fighting! Thats it, that was the enlightening ending, and seriously I felt the power of that message.

                Maybe I'm a sap for finding meaning in that, but how seriously would the world today be affected if everyone followed what Neo did and stopped fighting...

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                • Michael Moorcock
                  Site Host
                  • Dec 2003
                  • 14278

                  #9
                  After watching the first one I felt baffled. To me, those ideas had been better explored by the likes of Philip K. Dick some fifty years ago. The rest of the movies seemed to have bullshit rationales for what were basically standard action sf stories. If you got more from the last one, good luck to you. But even with the kindest interpretation, you couldn't say these ideas were exactly novel to popular culture (if sf of the kind I like IS popular culture) let alone literary fiction. I wanted those movies to be as good as the directors said they were, but I suppose I should have known better by now. :)

                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
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                  Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
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                  Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

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                  • DeeCrowSeer
                    Eternal Champion
                    • Feb 2004
                    • 2214

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Lagbane
                    Maybe I'm a sap for finding meaning in that, but how seriously would the world today be affected if everyone followed what Neo did and stopped fighting...
                    Well, I haven't seen the final film, but I certainly don't think you're a sap. Often it's possible to find meaning in all sorts of peculiar places. I even managed to trace a subtext through Speed 2, but then I had to do something to keep my brain ticking over during that film!

                    I loved the first Matrix film, but just couldn't bring myself to see the sequels. I just didn't see how they could live up to the original, and the reviews seemed to justify my pessimism, so I'm really not kicking myself that I missed anything special.

                    Having said that I do have notoriously uneven taste in films (Josie and the Pussycats is still safely lodged in my Top 5), so I should probably shut up.
                    "That which does not kill us, makes us stranger." - Trevor Goodchild

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                    • Michael Moorcock
                      Site Host
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 14278

                      #11
                      Nobody's a sap for finding meaning in something. I have often argued that some books and movies are blessed with audiences who are actually smarter and more inventive than the books and movies they read or watch. Not everyone agrees with my book reviews, for instance, but I don't think that makes me a sap, either. I'd be prepared to argue that you are better than the stuff you're watching, but that's about as far as I'd go... :D

                      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                      The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                      Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                      Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                      The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                      Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                      Comment

                      • ReaveTheJust
                        Denizen of Moo Uria
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 123

                        #12
                        I hate to be a science nerd, but isn't there a fundamental contradiction with the Matrix? - maybe this has already been discussed, if so apologies.

                        The sunlight's blocked off. The sun is the source of all energy (notwithstanding a bit of Geothermal) including, right down the food chain, for Homo Sapiens.

                        So where does the energy come from for these human "batteries"? Have the wachowski's never heard of entropy?

                        If I'm wrong, someone correct me, it's many years since I did a science degree and I'm a bit simple these days.

                        As to the films (including the first, I'm afraid for me), three words: Style over content. However, as style goes, Larry Fishburne and Agent Smith (the Aussie, can't recall his name) are great. Keanu Reeves is awful, but what's new there.

                        Maybe I'm just a grumpy old curmudgeon :( , but I "don't get it", so to speak.

                        Comment

                        • Michael Moorcock
                          Site Host
                          • Dec 2003
                          • 14278

                          #13
                          Yep. I think there are a lot of those contradictions, but supporters of the movies will explain these as ironies. I happen to believe that you can write a 'philosophical' text (movie) which retains its inner logic and still raises issues of reality and perception. I still prefer the far less pretentious Dark City. which does pretty much maintain its own logic.

                          Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                          The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                          Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                          Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                          The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                          Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                          Comment

                          • Bob
                            Bob
                            Defender of the Runestaff
                            • Dec 2003
                            • 327

                            #14
                            Ooooh! Dark City is ace. Oddly though, on first viewing it didn't do a great deal for me, but on a second viewing it suddenly seemed a lot better. Maybe I'd grown up since the first viewing? I also saw it for the second time after the original Matrix came out... maybe that's part of the reason?

                            Richard O'Brien was deeply unsettling in his performance.
                            Call me cockey, but if there\'s an alien I can\'t kill, I haven\'t met him and killed him yet!

                            Comment

                            • Michael Moorcock
                              Site Host
                              • Dec 2003
                              • 14278

                              #15
                              Hugely underappreciated, in my view. I rarely watch movies more than once. It's one of the few I've enjoyed watching again.

                              Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                              The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                              Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                              Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                              The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                              Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                              Comment

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