White Wolf Volumes

[Clangador]

Why are the White Wolf books so expensive? Are they a limited print run or something? Is there any chance there may be reprints of them?

~Clangador

[TheEighthSon]

Reprints are apparently on hold until the movie is released, to get the book-film marketing thing going, at the agent's suggestion, not MM's. Now at the rate the film's going, the reprints should be out sometime in the year 2056!

What?

Prove me wrong! :lol:

(yea, like this is gonna spur the film onwards... hee hee hee)

[Doc]

White Wolf proved that you can be a pretty good games publisher but be a lousy book publisher. White Wolf's business practices alienated several authors, who essentially withdrew their books from print. Consequently, while they weren't limited editions, the later volumes had relatively small print runs, which explains their scarcity and prices. This is also why the last two volumes were never published in softcover.

MM has talked about this in several places, but I'm too lazy to track down the links :oops: :D

[Clangador]

White Wolf proved that you can be a pretty good games publisher but be a lousy book publisher. White Wolf's business practices alienated several authors, who essentially withdrew their books from print. Consequently, while they weren't limited editions, the later volumes had relatively small print runs, which explains their scarcity and prices. This is also why the last two volumes were never published in softcover.

MM has talked about this in several places, but I'm too lazy to track down the links :oops: :D

Good to know. I guess I'll get what I can and wait for the rest or read old copies. Any idea why WW was the publisher and not some more main stream company?

~Clangador

[Kitsune]

I'm a bit confused. Are we talking White Wolf the company that makes RPGS or "White Wolf" as in Elric's nickname as in "Weird of the White Wolf?"

[Doc]

Hey Kitsune-
White Wolf the games publisher. Maybe their name isn't coincidental?

Clangador-
As I remember, MM decided to revise and reprint the EC cycle with White Wolf because they promised to put out high quality books at a reasonable price, which many other companies wouldn't do.

However, White Wolf made some marketing mistakes with books. In big box stores, shelf space is at a premium, so most books are displayed with only the spine showing. While the covers of the White Wolf editions are brilliant (in my opinion), most people didn't see the great the cover art unless they were looking for MM's work specifically, and pulled the book of the shelf. In short, since the books seemed pretty ordinary displayed spine out, the book design didn't necessarily help sales, which great covers are supposed to do. The Harlan Ellison Edgeworks series faced similar limitations.

More importantly, White Wolf failed to live up to their contractual obligations to their authors. I'm not a businessman, but I'm guessing that sending royalty checks to authors might be one of the most important things a publishing company can do. (My apologies to MM for discussing his finances.)

Of course, Mike can tell you much more definitively than I can. I'm forced to rely on an admittedly faulty memory. :)

[TheEighthSon]

In the front cover of Tales of the White Wolf, they mention about Elric finally having 'come home'. Take that for what it's worth...

[Clangador]

Hey Kitsune-
White Wolf the games publisher. Maybe their name isn't coincidental?

I would say it's not.

~Clangador

[Governor of Rowe Island]

Presumably, the WW revisions are the same as the ones published in the UK by Millenium?
There were fifteen volumes published by Millenium - how many were published by WW? I know there are some differences between them, but does anyone know what they are?
Someone out there must be able to save the rest of us the trouble of making a comparitive search in the bibliography!

[Typhoid_Mary]

There were 14 published by Millennium and 15 published by White Wolf. The New Nature of The Catastrophe was UK only and The Roads Between Worlds and Kane of Old Mars were US only. Apart from that, I have no idea what the differences between the US and UK editions are as I only have the UK editions. Can't stand covers on the White Wolf editions.

I've just had a thought. When the Elric movie comes out, there will probably be tie-in editions of the novels with images from the film on the covers. That's something to look forward to. Not.

[Pellaz]

White Wolf proved that you can be a pretty good games publisher but be a lousy book publisher. White Wolf's business practices alienated several authors, who essentially withdrew their books from print. Consequently, while they weren't limited editions, the later volumes had relatively small print runs, which explains their scarcity and prices. This is also why the last two volumes were never published in softcover.

MM has talked about this in several places, but I'm too lazy to track down the links :oops: :D

In some cases I think it came down to bad accounting. When "White Wolf's Awakening" was bought for Tales of the White Wolf they sent me a check pretty promptly, which was cool, and they sent me a 1099-MISC form at the end of the year, which was proper (although I wouldn't have complained had they lost it :) :) ). So far, so good...but the following year, they sent me ANOTHER 1099-MISC for the same amount, even though I'd only been paid once, of course.

This is the sort of thing that has the IRS come breathing down your neck after the fact, so I called White Wolf and asked for a corrected copy. I never got one, even after repeated attempts. Luckily I never got a letter from the IRS, either....

Now, if that was a widespread accounting error and a LOT of their authors and contributors got erroneous payment statements and couldn't get them corrected, I can understand why a few bridges might get burnt, and feelings hurt.

[JohnDavey]

Dear all,

Okay, here's as short an answer as I can make it. The Orion omnibus volumes, published in 1992 & '93, were (in order):-
'Von Bek'
'The Eternal Champion'
'Hawkmoon'
'Corum'
'Sailing To Utopia'
'A Nomad Of The Time Streams'
'The Dancers At The End Of Time'
'Elric Of Melnibonأ©'
'The New Nature Of The Catastrophe'
'The Prince With The Silver Hand'
'Legends From The End Of Time'
'Stormbringer'
'Earl Aubec And Other Stories'
'Count Brass'.

The White Wolf omnibus volumes, published in 1994 & 2000, were (in order):-
'The Eternal Champion'
'Von Bek'
'Hawkmoon'
'A Nomad Of The Time Streams'
'Elric: Song Of The Black Sword' (a.k.a. 'Elric Of Melnibonأ©')
'The Roads Between The Worlds'
'Corum: The Coming Of Chaos' (a.k.a. 'Corum')
'Sailing To Utopia'
'Kane Of Old Mars'
'The Dancers At The End Of Time'
'Elric: The Stealer Of Souls' (a.k.a. 'Stormbringer')
'Corum: The Prince With The Silver Hand')
'Legends From The End Of Time'
'Earl Aubec And Other Stories'
'Count Brass'.

Differences? Generally, speaking, the White Wolf editions have the more definitive texts, having (in most instances) received an additional and thorough copy-edit. The W.W. trade-sized paperbacks are also very slightly more definitive than the hardcovers, having allowed correction of anything erroneous occurring first time 'round. (This is only approaching substantial in 'Hawkmoon', where the hardcover had a few layout problems.) Also, the 'Stormbringer' novel, in 'Elric: The Stealer Of Souls', was fairly substantially worked on, to ensure inclusion of the best of all previous versions.

The contents differ between editions of 'Von Bek'. Orion's contained 'The War Hound And The World's Pain', 'The City In The Autumn Stars' & 'The Pleasure Garden Of Felipe Sagittarius'. W.W.'s added 'The Dragon In The Sword'.

Likewise, Orion's 'The Eternal Champion' contained 'The Eternal Champion', 'Phoenix In Obsidian' & 'The Dragon In The Sword'. W.W.'s contained 'The Eternal Champion', The Sundered Worlds', 'Phoenix In Obsidian' & 'To Rescue Tanelorn...'

Orion's 'Legends From The End Of Time' was severely compromised by printing errors/omissions, and is only complete in their mass-sized paperback edition, and in the W.W. hardcover.

Lastly, W.W.'s 'Earl Aubec' omits 'To Rescue Tanelorn...' from the Orion contents, and adds 'Sir Milk-and-Blood'.

Lastly lastly, the mass-p/b of 'The New Nature Of The Catastrophe' differs from the h/c & trade-p/b editions, omitting 'The Adventures Of Jerry Cornelius' and adding 'All The Way Round Again'.

That's it, I think... and trust me, that's as short an answer as I could make it.

Best,


John.

[Pellaz]

--And if John says it, "That's the facts, Jack!" :D



(Hi there, John! :) )

[Anonymous]

I managed to complete my WW collection at no small expense. A couple of the books cost me 3 times the retail price, but I ended up with all hardcovers, and 2 of them are signed by MM. I started buying them up as they came out new, waaaaaaaaay back in the day, to replace my worn out paperbacks, but around volume 8, I kind of lost track and then over a 6 month span last year before my son was born, I started buying them up as fast as I could. I was lucky to get Barnes and Nobles last online copy of volume 11 (elric) because that sucker goes for big bucks in the second hand market. In fact, I picked up all but 5 of the bucks at retail price. Earl Aubec, Dancers at the end of time, Legends from the End of Time, Kane of Old Mars and Count Brass all cost me big bucks (due to limited print runs, as Doc mentioned).

[Governor of Rowe Island]

Thanks John, where would we be without you? I, for one, am always referring to your bibliography which was available a few years back.
I'm sure I've read on a thread somewhere that Michael finds it invaluable himself!