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Infinity- yeah, it is pretty damn big

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  • Infinity- yeah, it is pretty damn big

    Question (you guys can answer too of course, not just Mr. M):

    We know that the Eternal Champion exists in myriad incarnations (infinite or near infinite aspects of the same being). Corum, Hawkmoon, Erekose, Elric, etc. are just a few that we are familiar with. One champion, many aspects. Now here is the question- do you think that there are infinite versions of each of these incarnations? In other words, do you think that there is an Elric that never blew the horn of Roland, an Elric that died as a child, an Elric that never found Stormbringer, etc.? If the answer is yes, then not only is the EC doomed to fight for the balance in all of its incarnations for all time, but each of those incarnations is doomed to an infinity of myriad realites reflecting every possible choice each incarnation could make.

    *head explodes

  • #2
    Don't think so, because there's a strong fatalistic streak in the EC stories. Elric's fate, especially, seems predestined.
    Best/Mario

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    • #3
      The Skrayling Tree and Elric: Making of a Sorcerer flesh you question out nicely. The answer is yes.
      The cat spread its wings and flew high into the air, hovering to keep pace with them as they moved cautiously toward the city. Then, as they climbed over the rubble of what had once been a gateway and began to make their way through piles of weed-grown masonry, the cat flew to the squat building with the yellow dome upon its roof. It flew twice around the dome and then came back to settle on Jhary's shoulder. - The King of the Swords

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      • #4
        well the answer maybe yes (havenآ´t read Skraling Tree though), but of course it does not help to decide when every individual is just one of a myriad of itself. every single one of those is a individual, and has to act... an infinite number of infinite realities does not take the boulder from the shoulders of every single one. of course if you deny the autonomity of the individual, every thing disolves. this also works from the ethical point of view: if every incarnation is not only responsible for his or her own act, but has to care of an infinite number of resposibilities not for other individuals in his own sphere, but also for the others and incarnation of himself in an infinite number of other spheres, then the question of responsibility is meaningless. as i see things, the multiverse is a universe, after all (it has to be, otherwise, why a connection between the infinite number of possible worlds and indiviual circumnstances) the infinite number of possible realities only reflects the intricate situiation of our very own world.

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        • #5
          Skrayling and some of Mr. M's own remarks actually lead me to the question. Sounds like I need to find a copy of Making of the Sorcerer. My local comic shop was out last time I checked.

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          • #6
            "Multiple worlds" is , I understand, a scientific theory - used to explain events on a quantum level: Every time we take a decision, reality branches off and another incarnation of ourselves arises. There was an entertaining story on this theme in the Spring 04 edn of "Interzone". MM introduces the notion that it's possible to move between these worlds. Mind-boggling indeed. 8O
            \"...an ape reft of his tail, and grown rusty at climbing, who yet feels himself to be a symbol and the frail representative of Omnipotence in a place that is not home.\" James Branch Cabell

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            • #7
              I just suggested this in a different thread...

              The Second Ether sequence also fleshes out this question. The jugadors are playing with infinite possibilites.

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              • #8
                now, if and when the champion dies prematurely, without fulfilling his ultimate goal of restoring balance, does the world, or plane of existence cease to exist also? could i be stretching it to think that reality is only the dream of the eternal champion?

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                • #9
                  The fun part of an infinite realities universe is all of the above apply in an infinite number of places - and also do NOT apply in an infinite number of places. What happens in those places where two paradoxes, or more, collide, I can't figure out. Ask me again after I achieve godhood

                  But.... for the 'reality' he or she is on, surely there can't be a 'premature' death, just the one that fits that particular reality? The champion fails to achieve their goal in that 'reality', but if there are infinite realities there are plenty where a champion succeeds, fails, and any possible permutation in between.

                  If each 'reality' is predestined then what happens fits the plan - it not, what happens is just what happens, and the 'reality' goes it's merry way regardless, even if that means it ceases to function. The idea of balance can only really fail in a reality if one side of law or chaos totally obliterates the other, and if chaos wins then surely the permutations it creates mean that eventually some form of law should appear there again, if 'all things are possible'? Law winning completely is a nastier prospect though....

                  I'm still trying to work out what the implications for the 'Eternal' bit of the Eternal Champion means if time is a dimension of space 8O

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                  • #10
                    I think it's not very fair what Mr. M has done to poor Elric what with all the Infinite this and Eternal that, so a lawsuit on their behalf is forthcoming.... :lol:

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                    • #11
                      Re: Infinity- yeah, it is pretty damn big

                      Originally posted by DL
                      Question (you guys can answer too of course, not just Mr. M):

                      We know that the Eternal Champion exists in myriad incarnations (infinite or near infinite aspects of the same being). Corum, Hawkmoon, Erekose, Elric, etc. are just a few that we are familiar with. One champion, many aspects. Now here is the question- do you think that there are infinite versions of each of these incarnations? In other words, do you think that there is an Elric that never blew the horn of Roland, an Elric that died as a child, an Elric that never found Stormbringer, etc.? If the answer is yes, then not only is the EC doomed to fight for the balance in all of its incarnations for all time, but each of those incarnations is doomed to an infinity of myriad realites reflecting every possible choice each incarnation could make.

                      *head explodes
                      I guess it would depend on what theory of reality hold true in Mr. Moorcocks multiverse. Is the many worlds theory true of is it something a little more deterministic than that?

                      ~Clangador
                      __________
                      ~Clangador
                      __________
                      Another obligatory quote:
                      \"The word liberal, like liberty, derives
                      from the Latin liber (\"free\").\"
                      __________

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                      • #12
                        I think that the EC universe is _similar_ to many worlds, but instead of divergent worlds, there are parallel ones. Hence, while each universe has a destined end, they do not necessarily share the same beginning.
                        Best/Mario

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                        • #13
                          I believe that all the EC's do exist in diffrent forms and they are all around the multiverse. Thats one of the big things i like about Mr M's writing, its such a mind screw its awesome.

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