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Wiered interconections, please HELP!

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  • Wiered interconections, please HELP!

    Hi, I've got a few questions concerning the EC books and its hidden messages and such.
    [but just a heads up I've only finished The Hexilogy of Corum (Is that what you call it?) and the High history of the runestaff

    I've noticed a couple of connections in between character names that confuse me like a politician claiming that what he says is the truth
    1.)Jhary-a-Conel == Jerry Cornileus (Jhary[Jerry]-a-Coneleus), Jherek Carnelian, and in the topic "Fictional Languages" a user named 'Strider' mentions that rearrange Corum Jhaelen Irsei you get 'Jeremiah Cornelius'

    2.)Again about Jhary-a-Conel is he the "Warrior in jet and Gold"

    3.)As for Corum is he based in OUR past since it mirrors the mythological past of Celtic Ireland eg. the Fairy 'Sidhe' = Sidhi, and that there was a a race of huminoids in Ireland before humans lived there (I forgot if teh people you moved there or the race there alredy came form as far as historians know Grecce [Euro 2004! and olympics :lol: ] or spain.)
    of course this was only Folklore their were said to be skilled at magic (scince of Corums race)

    4.)Another Corum question: if Corum is of a elven (elf like) folk then what of the Nadragh (can't spell it) I remeber that when Corum traveled forward in time to that old wise woman said 'Trolls' taht hated the Vagdah

  • #2
    Welcome to the ever confusing and oh so wonderful world of the Eternal Champion Saga, Mr Ferrari! :D

    The 'JC' stuff you mentioned is there, and it goes a lot deeper too, once you read the rest of the stuff. There's also, off the top of my head, Jehemiah Cohnalias and Jerry Cornell. One of Mr M's pen names at one point was James Colvin. There's an artist who adapted the Hawkmoon stuff into graphic format whose name is James Cawthorn. There's a book called Behold the Man which involves a rather famous 'JC' you might have heard of (one Jesus Christ). And if you ever heared of a tv series called Sliders, where a group of peole are lost travelling through alternate Earths, the lead was played by a bloke called Jerry O Connell. Now THAT'S SPOOKY!!! Just wait until you meet the von Bek family...

    There are a LOT of subtle interconnections like that throughout the extended saga. It's one of the reasons I like it. You can read them and think that you know what's happening, then move onto the next 'set' and think "Hold on, isn't that..." Then when you return to what you've read before you find new meaning to things you never saw before.

    As for Corum being the Warrior in Jet and Gold... Well... Maybe... Could also be a few other people too... But then again, they're probably all the same person anyway...

    The Corum books were set in and around Celtic Cornwall in the south of England. As for whether it's 'our' past or not remains a little unclear- it could be our world, but it could also have been one of many alternate worlds in different parts of space-time in different cycles of the Multiverse. Space and Time within the Multiverse aren't necessarily what we think they are. 8O 8O 8O

    Anyway, have fun!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TheEighthSon
      Then when you return to what you've read before you find new meaning to things you never saw before.
      So, so, SO true!

      Originally posted by TheEighthSon
      As for Corum being the Warrior in Jet and Gold... Well... Maybe... Could also be a few other people too... But then again, they're probably all the same person anyway...
      He was asking about Jhary with regard to the Warrioir in J&G, and to that I'd say probably not. As I recall, Jhary was described in The Vanishing Tower as having pretty fancy and colorful clothes, with a very important matching hat, no less.

      Of course, as TheEighthSon said, that's the wonderful and confusing multiverse for ya. Nothing about it is ever completely clear, even for its inhabitants!

      Originally posted by TheEighthSon
      As for whether it's 'our' past or not remains a little unclear- it could be our world, but it could also have been one of many alternate worlds in different parts of space-time...
      One thing Mike has said that might clarify things a little with regard to the 'timeline' of the multiverse is that Space is a dimension of Time, not the other way around.
      "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
      --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

      Comment


      • #4
        I think Ferrari is probably even more confused now! Can anyone else remember how confusing it was having the Multiverse explained to you? I couldn't get a handle on it until I'd read a few series.
        Keep reading, Ferrari, and everything will become clear (as mud.)
        You see, it's... it's no good, Montag. We've all got to be alike. The only way to be happy is for everyone to be made equal.

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        "I am an observer of life, a non-participant who takes no sides. I am in the regimented society, but not of it." Moondog, 1964

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        • #5
          Quite right, Gov. Perhaps the secret is to not overthink it; just go with it. The more EC stories you read, the more holes get filled in...

          ...and others created. *scratches head* Oh, nevermind! :roll:
          "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
          --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks everybody, That has cleared up a couple of this for me.
            But I cheated over thae last couple of days and looked at the blurbs on the back of some of Mr.Moorcock's other books and noticed that in the 'Quest for Gatherhorn' (i can't spell his texts) that it mentiond none other then Jhary-a-Conel!
            but it is interresting that the names are based on Jesus Christ! does that mean that God is the force of both law and chaos! :o Actualy that could be crossing the line

            but as for time line does that mean that say the timelines in the multiverse 'intersect' each other :? meaning that something that "didn't" happen in ourworld may affect it.(you don't have to answer that one, I can't understand it that well)

            but thanks for all the help, and thank MM for such good books 8)

            Comment


            • #7
              Actually I don't think it's based on Jesus Christ, and that that's just a coincidence I threw in to be awkward... :D

              James Colvin was an early pseudonym, picked by his editor at the time, John Carnell, and Jerry Cornelius was a coincidence. When he actually noticed the link with the initials, he decided to make it a permanent thing.

              Certainly Jesus could be an incarnation of the Eternal Champion, I suppose, but I think it's just coincidence. Still, it's a good reference for Behold the Man!

              Could say the same about John Cleese of Monty Python fame... :lol: Is he an aspect too?

              Comment


              • #8
                Actually, Jerry Cornelius is a sort of shadow/mirror version of Jesus Christ. He is after all referred to as the messiah of the age of technology or something to that effect. He certainly has his share of ressurections too (and if you want to talk about confusing...)
                My Facebook; My Band; My Radio Show; My Flickr Page; Science Fiction Message Board

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                • #9
                  Never got very far in the Jerry books unfortunately. When I read the first two or three I was too young, I think, to fully appreciate a lot of it. Still, I do keep meaning to go back to them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    John Cleese ah!, hmmmmm.
                    If it wern't for the initials I would have thought none other then
                    (check my user name) Micheal Schumacher 8) , he has kept the force of law in formula one, and Jaun Pablo Montya is chaos.

                    Anyway on a seroius note is Jerry Cornelius a very, how should I say...
                    adult induvidual and that is why he is described as a 'Mirror' of Jesus Christ? I maybee just over anylizing all this, infact , yeah I 'am oh well.

                    by the way I'm only 14 so I consider myself a genius for understanding the concept of alternate worlds and infante possibilatys etc.etc.etc.

                    in closing: if I don't 'think' to hard about it it will be at least a little easier to understand?(well I hope it will be, it better be! :x )

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That's the answer - just go with it

                      As MM himself says in The Steel Tsar: “Only we who attempt to impose linearity on Time and Space are confused. We become the victims of our own narrowness of vision.�
                      "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl f'tagn"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
                        One thing Mike has said that might clarify things a little with regard to the 'timeline' of the multiverse is that Space is a dimension of Time, not the other way around.
                        Space is a dimension of Time... could someone explain that? (Or direct me to an explanation posted elsewhere?)

                        I at least think that I can make some sense out of the so-called "many worlds" interpretation of quantum mechanics... but I'm not sure about the above.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We can argue and discourse until we're blue in the face. Nothing changes the inalterable fact that the entire multiverse, and each of the myriad "JC" aspects of the Champion, pivots around one critically important (and now dead) personage.....
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          (wait for it......)
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          .
                          ..why, it's comedian John Candy, of course! :lol: :twisted:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sorry to enter this a little late...

                            Be sure to read the Second Ether sequence. That will also clear up some of the holes. Of course, as PWV aptly points out, it also opens many, many more.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Draco Caeruleus
                              Originally posted by PsychicWarVeteran
                              One thing Mike has said that might clarify things a little with regard to the 'timeline' of the multiverse is that Space is a dimension of Time, not the other way around.
                              Space is a dimension of Time... could someone explain that? (Or direct me to an explanation posted elsewhere?)

                              I at least think that I can make some sense out of the so-called "many worlds" interpretation of quantum mechanics... but I'm not sure about the above.
                              I'll try to clarify. Most people look at Time as being a single, unchanging dimension of Space (some have even called it the 'forth dimension'). That is to say that it follows a single path, rooted firmly in Space. It has one direction -- just like depth, width and height -- which cannot be altered. Things happen in a set and locked order. The nature of Time limits us in this way.

                              In the Multiverse, we might consider that Space is actually subservient to Time and not the other way around. Thus, something that happened in one person's tomorrow occurs in another person's yesterday (perhaps based on "where" those people are in Space). The events themselves are what is locked (creating what we know as fate, perhaps?) and it is Time that is the variable factor.

                              In other words, when thinking of the relationship between Space and Time, think of Time being the more maliable of the two, rather than Space.

                              Does that help at all? :? I do not claim to speak for Mr. M, but this is how I personally understand Time in the Multiverse.
                              "Wounds are all I'm made of. Did I hear you say that this is victory?"
                              --Michael Moorcock, Veteran of the Psychic Wars

                              Comment

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