Announcement

Collapse

Welcome to Moorcock's Miscellany

Dear reader,

Many people have given their valuable time to create a website for the pleasure of posing questions to Michael Moorcock, meeting people from around the world, and mining the site for information. Please follow one of the links above to learn more about the site.

Thank you,
Reinart der Fuchs
See more
See less

Von Bek and The Blood Red Game

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Von Bek and The Blood Red Game

    While recently browsing through the Moocockopedia under "Von Bek", I discovered that The Blood Red Game has been rewritten as a Von Bek story. My copy must be from before that rewrite, because I didn't know about this before.

    I was just wondering who became Von Bek (Asquiol?), and what other changes there may have been. Should I look for the Von Bek version, or are the changes minor?

    Thanks,

    Draco Caeruleus

  • #2
    The changes are minor. When I was doing the omnibus sequence I thought it would make more sense to tie it in a little tighter with the other books. I think it improves the feel of the overall series, but there's no need to buy another copy!
    I wrote those stories before I started doing the Cornelius stories. It was while I was writing the early Cornelius stories that I realised essentially I was writing about the same character with different names. Maybe I should have read Joseph Campbell before I started. As it is, I still haven't read Campbell!

    Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
    The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
    Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


    Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
    The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
    Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the reply!

      Interesting point there regarding Campbell... I hadn't thought of that before.

      Draco Caeruleus

      Comment


      • #4
        Ah! Joseph Campbell. Reading "Hero With A Thousand Faces" has changed the way I view the world. You should read it, Michael. I believe it would strike a such a chord with you, that you will curse yourself for not having read it before. I did when I read it. It has made me realise how wrong some of the things done in the name of various religions have been. If only the followers of these religions could live more like the men they were founded on, the world would be a much better place.
        You see, it's... it's no good, Montag. We've all got to be alike. The only way to be happy is for everyone to be made equal.

        -:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-

        Image Hive :-: Wikiverse :-: Media Hive

        :-: Onsite Offerings :-:


        "I am an observer of life, a non-participant who takes no sides. I am in the regimented society, but not of it." Moondog, 1964

        Comment


        • #5
          I HAVE read The Golden Bough and The White Goddess, which offer some of the same resonances, I gather.
          Incidentally, Mr Bonney, how did you get to be Governor ? Last I heard, Pat Garrett had terminated your candidacy.

          Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
          The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
          Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


          Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
          The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
          Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

          Comment


          • #6
            Aah, my cover is blown! I didn't say which continuum my Rowe Island is in though, did I? And, besides, haven't you heard the rumours? (Should've known it would be you to spot my avatar, pard. Temporarily forgot how knowledgeable you were on the Old West, both real and fictionalised.)

            "The Hero With A Thousand Faces" is the only one of Campbell's books I'm familiar with, but as I say it affected me profoundly. I really must try to to read more of his work, though there are so many books I have my eye on, that I really don't know where to start. Well, that's not strictly true, I have started to re-read quite a few already in my collection after realising that I got a lot more out of them, as I got older. I'm forever on the lookout for a decent read (for want of a better description) and sorting the wheat from the chaff is a massive task, as I'm sure you'll appreciate.
            You see, it's... it's no good, Montag. We've all got to be alike. The only way to be happy is for everyone to be made equal.

            -:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-

            Image Hive :-: Wikiverse :-: Media Hive

            :-: Onsite Offerings :-:


            "I am an observer of life, a non-participant who takes no sides. I am in the regimented society, but not of it." Moondog, 1964

            Comment


            • #7
              Maybe we should have somewhere we can all post titles and publishers of books we've recently enjoyed ? They don't have to be recently published. I'm still pushing Grimmelshausen (Simplicissimus) and, say, Charles Williams's theological thrillers. Margery Allingham's best Campion stories (More Work for the Undertaker, The Tiger in the Smoke),
              Walter Mosley's books (including RL's Dream and his sf), Michael Chabon (esp. Kavalier and Clay), J.G.Ballard (both his romantic fantasies like The Drowned World and, say, The Atrocity Exhibition), Elizabeth Bowen (esp. Death of the Heart) and Henry Green (esp. the one about firewatching in WW2 -- name escapes me). Ronald Furbank, Gerald Kersh, Jack Trevor Story. George Meredith as a very great Victorian (and early modernist, for what it's worth). W.Pett Ridge (you have to find most of these second hand) as a good slice of life Edwardian (Mord Em'ly being his best known) and Israel Zangwill (Edwardian Jewish life as well as The Mantle of Elijah -- which is a fine anti-war novel) and, of course, the various fantasy writers I've reviewed recently and who are mentioned in Wizardry and Wild Romance. Ford Madox Ford (Conrad's collaborator), John Galsworthy (became unfashionable but very good for insight into commercial life of his time, among other things), Mahfouz, the great Egyptian novelist (and showing an interesting tradition not much represented intranslation), Russians such as Bunin, Zamyiatin,
              Grin and many others. Then there are the poets... :)

              Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
              The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
              Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


              Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
              The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
              Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
                Maybe we should have somewhere we can all post titles and publishers of books we've recently enjoyed ?
                The bookaholics among us (guilty!) would like it, and I thought of starting
                such a forum under Books, but I worried it might turn into a laundry list.
                Also, there are books I regard as good, that I don't know if many other
                people would like, or that probably everyone else has read.

                They don't have to be recently published. I'm still pushing Grimmelshausen (Simplicissimus)
                Hans von Grimmelshausen's Simplicius Simplicissimus is one of those books.
                I think it's great: funny, bawdy, satirical, absurd, wayward, and an adventure story as
                well. There are scenes for this book that I've related to other people that never
                fail to get hearty laughs.

                His book Die Landstorzerin Courage is pretty entertaining, too, but it doesn't
                have the breadth of Simplicissimus.

                I once wrote an essay in college on the parallels between Simplicissimus
                and Thomas Mann's The Confessions of Felix Krull, Confidence Man. Mann
                put them there very intentionally, as an homage of sorts.

                I'd recommend the Mann novel too, but it is unfinished -- it was intended as
                the first volume of a multi-volume work, and Mann died before completing
                it, if he ever would've gotten around to it. Not everyone on whom I've foisted
                the book finds it as pleasant as I did.

                and, say, Charles Williams's theological thrillers. Margery Allingham's best Campion stories (More Work for the Undertaker, The Tiger in the Smoke),
                Walter Mosley's books (including RL's Dream and his sf), Michael Chabon (esp. Kavalier and Clay), J.G.Ballard (both his romantic fantasies like The Drowned World and, say, The Atrocity Exhibition),
                I'll need to look up the Allingham and Chabon books. Ballard has been one of my
                favorites for many years, and I've always liked the books you listed.

                Elizabeth Bowen (esp. Death of the Heart)
                That's probably her best. I like The House in Paris, too.

                and Henry Green (esp. the one about firewatching in WW2 -- name escapes me).
                I think I know to which book you're referring, but it's slipped my mind.

                I like the 3 volumes collected by Penguin: Living / Loving / Party Going.

                Ronald Furbank,
                Whoa! Ronald Firbank is someone I rarely see mentioned.

                Concering the Eccentricities of Cardinal Parelli is a riot.

                It's thought that Huxley was influenced by his books, somewhat. I'd say
                it seems unclear, although there are some similarities.

                Gerald Kersh,
                Night and the City. Yes. A lot of his books are hard to come by
                outside second hand booksellers.

                Jack Trevor Story.
                Back in the days of New Worlds, M. John Harrison wrote an essay called
                "A Literature of Comfort" that discussed his novel, The Wind in the Snottygobble
                Tree
                . I followed up, and have read his books -- when I can find them.

                Any particular recommendations?

                George Meredith as a very great Victorian (and early modernist, for what it's worth).
                Most literate American readers have encountered The Ordeal of Richard Feverel,
                The Egoist, and Diana of the Crossways. Besides those, I've read his
                Oriental extravaganza, The Shaving of Shagpat, which is entertaining, but slighter.

                If there are other books of this quality by him, I'd be interested to hear about them.

                Meredith was very witty and skilled at repartee. His narrative entrأ©es to the novels
                were more indirect than most Victorian readers were accustomed to, and he acquired
                a somewhat undeserved reputation as a difficult writer.

                W.Pett Ridge (you have to find most of these second hand) as a good slice of life Edwardian (Mord Em'ly being his best known) and Israel Zangwill (Edwardian Jewish life as well as The Mantle of Elijah -- which is a fine anti-war novel) and, of course, the various fantasy writers I've reviewed recently and who are mentioned in Wizardry and Wild Romance.
                Notes taken. ;)

                Ford Madox Ford (Conrad's collaborator),
                Parade's End (the first 3 books, anyway) and The Good Soldier are
                really good. He also wrote a crotchety book on literature in his old age that
                is a lot of fun.

                He wrote some historical novels, too, that I've seen but never read.
                Are they good? One of the collaborations with Conrad, Romance,
                is widely available, and might be the best of their joint efforts.

                If we believe the reminiscence of Hemingway in A Moveable Feast
                (probably semi-accurate at best) or Leon Edel's biography of Henry
                James, Ford Maddox Ford was a "character" to say the least.

                John Galsworthy (became unfashionable but very good for insight into commercial life of his time, among other things),
                Galsworthy is a strange bird. The book The Man of Property is terrific for the
                things Mr. Moorcock mentions. It also has a layer of added irony, now that the
                Edwardian world it lovingly describes has mostly vanished.

                He wrote longish stories, too. "The Apple Tree" used to be famous. It seems
                to contain a certain conventionality of thought in it's use of what appeared
                to be stock situations and reactions. It troubled me that the man who could
                write The Man of Property could also write something like this. Perhaps
                I read it incorrectly.

                Mahfouz, the great Egyptian novelist (and showing an interesting tradition not much represented intranslation), Russians such as Bunin, Zamyiatin,
                Grin and many others. Then there are the poets... :)
                More notes. I've read a lot of Ivan Bunin, and besides Evgeny Zamyiatin's
                novel We (thought to be perhaps an inspiration for Huxley's dystopia),
                there's a book of his stories called, The Dragon. Highly recommended.

                LSN

                Comment


                • #9
                  Briefly -- interesting you should compare Grimmelshausen and Mann's Krull because I was struck by the similarities. I used Grimmelshausen as a model for the Pyat books, though there were always echoes of Krull in there, too (plus other Mann stuff).
                  The Amazing Marriage by George Meredith has much modernist prefiguring and antedates James. It is my favourite Meredith and I pinched some of the techniques for Dancers at the End of Time from that particular book. I still think it's his masterpiece, though some consider it a rerun of Diana. I think it's a much stronger book than Diana. Fiercely pro-woman -- independent woman.

                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                  The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                  Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                  Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                  The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                  Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Michael Moorcock
                    Briefly -- interesting you should compare Grimmelshausen and Mann's Krull because I was struck by the similarities.
                    It's not our collective delusion. The parallels are there. Mann very consciously
                    took various episodes or traits of Simplicius and translated them parodically
                    to Felix Krull. Think about the "gift of tongues" with which Simplicius seems
                    to be gifted, and think about Krull's ability to seem as if he speaks all
                    languages. The interview between Krull and Stأ¼rzli at the Albany & St James
                    Hotel is a good example. Similarly, there's the "musical" performance put
                    on by Krull (via the contrivance of his father) where they Vaselined the
                    violin bow and had him imitate a child prodigy -- a parody of Simplicius's
                    youthful ability as a musician.

                    The German picaresque exists in the shadow of Grimmelshausen's book, and
                    it's difficult to write within that tradition without at least a bow in his direction.
                    Mann did a little more than that, in his playful artistic fashion.

                    Mann's book is really more than just a parody, of course. It has thematic links
                    to his earlier stories, Tأ¶nio Krأ¶ger in particular.

                    I used Grimmelshausen as a model for the Pyat books, though there were always echoes of Krull in there, too (plus other Mann stuff).
                    Several people have mentioned the Pyat books to me of late. Clearly, I need
                    to read them.

                    Has anyone seen the new translation of Mann's Joseph novels? The
                    translator, John E. Woods, did a credible job with Buddenbrooks for
                    those who cannot read German; I gave the book to my wife and she liked
                    it. I did a cursory examination of Woods translation of Zauberberg, and
                    observed that he'd taken the extended conversation between Castorp and
                    Mdme. Cauchat and rendered the French into English. This put me off, a little,
                    because the original German text doesn't translate this; it's in French for a
                    purpose. In other respects, the translation seems reasonable, to the extent
                    that I checked it.

                    The Amazing Marriage by George Meredith has much modernist prefiguring and antedates James. It is my favourite Meredith and I pinched some of the techniques for Dancers at the End of Time from that particular book. I still think it's his masterpiece, though some consider it a rerun of Diana. I think it's a much stronger book than Diana. Fiercely pro-woman -- independent woman.
                    I've seen this book mentioned over the years, but I've never picked up a copy.
                    Time to check Books in Print.

                    Thinking about Meredith, I feel a strong desire to go back and reread The Egoist.
                    It's been a very long time. Feverel is good, but it was his first attempt at a
                    major novel and it shows.

                    Meredith was also a decent poet. In fact, he started his career as a poet if memory
                    serves. The sequence Modern Love is probably his best known work, with his
                    poem "Lucifer in Starlight."

                    LSN

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I can see that I am a mere beginner when it comes to literature, though I'm probably the best read person in my social circle!
                      I have so many demands on my time and attention (not least, the bloody internet!) that I my reading of any book is a disjointed affair. I also find myself stockpiling books then ending up blitzing them, which probably isn't the best way to enjoy them.
                      It's great to see recommendations of good books, though, because it can be difficult to know whether to believe the hype. For example, am I the only person who was vastly disappointed with "The Catcher in the Rye"?
                      You see, it's... it's no good, Montag. We've all got to be alike. The only way to be happy is for everyone to be made equal.

                      -:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-

                      Image Hive :-: Wikiverse :-: Media Hive

                      :-: Onsite Offerings :-:


                      "I am an observer of life, a non-participant who takes no sides. I am in the regimented society, but not of it." Moondog, 1964

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Governor of Rowe Island
                        I can see that I am a mere beginner when it comes to literature, though I'm probably the best read person in my social circle!
                        I have so many demands on my time and attention (not least, the bloody internet!) that I my reading of any book is a disjointed affair. I also find myself stockpiling books then ending up blitzing them, which probably isn't the best way to enjoy them.
                        I understand the problem. I cope by doing my promiscuous reading between
                        midnight and 2 am, and during lunch. I try to carry a book with me to lunch
                        every weekday. On the weekends, one's family gets first attention, of course. ;)

                        It's great to see recommendations of good books, though, because it can be difficult to know whether to believe the hype.
                        I'm actually very hesitant to "recommend" books to anyone. I suspect anyone who has
                        passed the age of "enthusiasm," as it were, will understand the point that follows.

                        There are lots of books I like that span the range from simple entertainments to
                        things that I think are genuinely great, from classics to relatively recent books that
                        I believe have a good shot at being read 50 years from now. There are also books
                        that I believe are "good" in the sense of being intelligent and well-executed, but that
                        aren't to my taste.

                        In my experience, many readers, especially younger ones, have a hard time distinguishing
                        between "the book is bad" versus "I didn't care for the book." These are completely
                        different propositions, I maintain. No one can force you to like something that doesn't
                        appeal.

                        Boil this down, and we have the clichأ©, there's no accounting for taste, or
                        chaqu'un أ  son goأ»t. Because of this, I'm reluctant to recommend a book to
                        someone unless I've got a good idea of their personal likes and dislikes, and
                        think I can do some prognostication. Recommending a book imposes an obligation
                        on the recommending party that makes me a trifle uncomfortable. The recommending
                        party is, in effect, telling another person to invest X hours of his valuable time,
                        and that they won't regret it.

                        It's not that sure a thing, folks. :-[

                        When I went on in previous posts about "recommending" this or that book, it
                        actually made me a little uncomfortable. There's no way of telling if a given person
                        will like Grimmelshausen or Mann or Balzac until they've read a little of the writer.
                        I've seen this up close in the last 5 years as my teenage daughter has asked me
                        for recommendations. I'm batting about 80% on successful recommendations to
                        her, and that 20% makes it feel like a failure. I hope she doesn't regret the wasted
                        time spent in following my suggestions she deemed bad for her. ;)

                        For example, am I the only person who was vastly disappointed with "The Catcher in the Rye"?
                        It depends on what expectations you had when you came to the book. I think it's
                        a reasonable attempt to capture the angst of a turning point in a certain adolescent's
                        life. It's very much of its time, but that's true of many books. I found the depiction
                        of the narrator's family a trifle unbelievable, but I was willing to suspend disbelief
                        for the duration of the book.

                        It's not full of ideas. Salinger's ideas always struck me as second hand at best,
                        anyway, so that's all to the good. I suppose I'd summarise my reaction by saying
                        that I think the book's okay, with reservations.

                        Of course, this is my subjective response, which seems to be what you were
                        soliciting. If we're to do a critical analysis of the book, something more is required.
                        There are probably people here better equipped to do that -- I'm a "humble"
                        mathematician. ;)

                        LSN

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "L" - I wish I could express myself so eloquently! You raised some very pertinent points regarding recommendations with which I can only agree.
                          However, I shall continue to hold your insight in high regard because it would seem you have surmised (accurately) that I am a parent. (It was the bit about weekends.) I have yet to struggle with what to give my sons to read, because their reading skills have yet to develop to the stage where they can read those books of mine which they take such an interest in, (until they find there are no pictures, that is.) This is something I face with some trepidation, not least because of the fear they might just not be interested in books.

                          (I really must try to stop using parentheses so much.)
                          (Damn!)
                          You see, it's... it's no good, Montag. We've all got to be alike. The only way to be happy is for everyone to be made equal.

                          -:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-

                          Image Hive :-: Wikiverse :-: Media Hive

                          :-: Onsite Offerings :-:


                          "I am an observer of life, a non-participant who takes no sides. I am in the regimented society, but not of it." Moondog, 1964

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Governor of Rowe Island
                            "L" - I wish I could express myself so eloquently! You raised some very pertinent points regarding recommendations with which I can only agree.
                            However, I shall continue to hold your insight in high regard because it would seem you have surmised (accurately) that I am a parent. (It was the bit about weekends.) I have yet to struggle with what to give my sons to read, because their reading skills have yet to develop to the stage where they can read those books of mine which they take such an interest in, (until they find there are no pictures, that is.) This is something I face with some trepidation, not least because of the fear they might just not be interested in books.
                            When dealing with children, my suggestion based on experience is to read aloud to them.
                            I did this with my daughter until she was about 9 or 10, and was already
                            reading pretty substantial books. Kids think it's fun to share a good book
                            with a parent. Also, for quite a while after children learn to read, their ability
                            to "understand" outstrips their comfort level with a difficult text. I could
                            cite numerous examples of unusual books I read to my offspring that they
                            understood well, but probably wouldn't have finished if left to their own
                            devices. Here's one sample: E.R. Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros.

                            The practice made me a lot better at reading aloud. It also enhanced my appreciation
                            for those writers who wrote to be "heard" as opposed to being read silently.

                            LSN

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree about reading aloud. That said, none of my kids turned out to be great readers. They had two novelists as parents. I think all those years spent being bored in bookstores are probably what did it... :)

                              Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in Europe:
                              The Whispering Swarm: Book One of the Sanctuary of the White Friars - The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction
                              Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles - Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - Modem Times 2.0 - The Sunday Books - The Sundered Worlds


                              Pre-order or Buy my latest titles in the USA:
                              The Laughter of Carthage - Byzantium Endures - London Peculiar and Other Nonfiction - The Sunday Books - Doctor Who: The Coming of the Terraphiles
                              Kizuna: Fiction for Japan - The Sundered Worlds - The Winds of Limbo - Modem Times 2.0 - Elric: Swords and Roses

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X