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Current scientific theory for the existence of the multiverse

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  • GuyLawley
    Champion of the Balance
    • Aug 2004
    • 1479

    Everything I've read seems to suggest Level 1 other universes are not observable. Since they share essentially the same physics as us, they would be observable if you were on the edge of one, but we aren't.

    The Wikipedia article you link to names / defines the Level 1 Multiverse thus:

    "Level I: Beyond our cosmological horizon"
    That means unobservable, surely? We can only see to the horizon.
    There are limits due to speed to light plus inflation.
    From National Geographic, discussing Level 1 (though they don't call it that):
    "In this multiverse spawned by "chaotic" inflation, the Big Bang is just a starting point, giving rise to multiple universes (including ours) separated by unimaginable gulfs of distance. How far does the multiverse stretch? Perhaps to infinity, suggests MIT physicist Max Tegmark, writing for Scientific American.
    That means that spread across space at distances far larger than the roughly 92 billion light-year width of the universe that we can observe, other universes reside..."
    The other article you link to says this:
    "The universe we live in may not be the only one out there. In fact, our universe could be just one of an infinite number of universes making up a "multiverse."Here are the five most plausible scientific theories suggesting we live in a multiverse:

    1. Infinite Universes

    Because the observable universe extends only as far as light has had a chance to get in the 13.7 billion years since the Big Bang (that would be 13.7 billion light-years), the space-time beyond that distance can be considered to be its own separate universe. In this way, a multitude of universes exists next to each other in a giant patchwork quilt of universes. "

    They have the math wrong, I think; the 92 billion light year (I have also read a figure of 42) accounts for inflation. And it's a very simplistic reason for considering other universe to exist. Tegmark's argument is much more sophisticated.

    But basically this is saying the same thing; if there are other universes out there, they are beyond the horizon of observability.




    Comment

    • In_Loos_Ptokai
      Abrogate all rituals
      • Apr 2007
      • 803

      A call to sit back and ponder the paradoxes:
      The Paradoxes That Threaten To Tear Modern Cosmology Apart
      The paradox of zero-point energy is well worth pondering: I've used zero-point energy at times in my fiction but never considered the implications, that energy might not be conserved, for example, which would mean the laws of thermodynaics would be potentially only local, or localizable ... now put that in your story and smoke it ...
      sigpic Myself as Mephistopheles (Karen Koed's painting of me, 9 Nov 2008, U of Canterbury, CHCH, NZ)

      Gold is the power of a man with a man
      And incense the power of man with God
      But myrrh is the bitter taste of death
      And the sour-sweet smell of the upturned sod,

      Nativity,
      by Peter Cape

      Comment

      • Michael Moorcock
        Site Host
        • Dec 2003
        • 14278

        Paradox is the norm. We have to stop trying to rationalise everything from too little data. That said, I still like my model which has a near infinite sequence of nesting universes too big or too little for us to detect each varying infinitesimally from the other. A bit like Mandelbrot sets. Obeying similar laws which only vary marginally over vast areas. Then there's Radiant Time, of course...
        Last edited by Michael Moorcock; 01-22-2015, 05:01 AM.

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        • GuyLawley
          Champion of the Balance
          • Aug 2004
          • 1479

          Undoubtedly the Moorcock Multiverse is the winner out of all these possible models.
          For its beauty and elegance, yes, but also because it's not asking us to actually imagine that it is in any sense actual science.
          At least, I don't think it is.
          But I haven't been to see Father Grammaticus... yet.

          Comment

          • Rothgo
            Champion of the Unbalanced
            • Aug 2006
            • 6663

            Higgs Bonsons eh? Super-heavy particles that are a total bugger to find. The idea that mass and observability (or the lack thereof) can be connected is therefor not too far a stretch.

            Comment

            • Navigator
              Chaos Engineer
              • Jun 2010
              • 112

              I have always felt that the multiverse is a more personal experience that is dependent on the individual. While scientific endeavor is a result of logic and reason, it is the open and unfettered mind that allows an experience of multi-level existence.

              That being said, I am very optimistic about our fringe sciences at the moment. The current trends toward multiple dimensions and observer influenced reality is (imo) exactly where we should be looking to further our understanding of "reality" and our relationship with it.
              I('d) tell you all, we are young at the end of this cycle, and there may be no rest even when we are done.- Devin Townsend

              Comment

              • Tales from Tanelorn
                Eternal Champion
                • Dec 2003
                • 2110

                This guy told me he spent most of his life working on a research project for the government trying to find out who is supplying all that dark energy.
                He worked on it 30 years and they paid him an incredible amount of money... He told them he was pretty sure it was a guy named Eddie...

                Comment

                • Tales from Tanelorn
                  Eternal Champion
                  • Dec 2003
                  • 2110

                  Originally posted by Navigator View Post
                  I have always felt that the multiverse is a more personal experience that is dependent on the individual. While scientific endeavor is a result of logic and reason, it is the open and unfettered mind that allows an experience of multi-level existence.

                  That being said, I am very optimistic about our fringe sciences at the moment. The current trends toward multiple dimensions and observer influenced reality is (imo) exactly where we should be looking to further our understanding of "reality" and our relationship with it.

                  Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
                  There is our perception of reality, others perception of reality, and what reality really is.

                  The brain is fooled when we look at a picture on a CRT, in reality it is just a fast moving spot. So it is with reality, its all fast moving particles, and no solid objects at all.

                  Comment

                  • Navigator
                    Chaos Engineer
                    • Jun 2010
                    • 112

                    Originally posted by Tales from Tanelorn View Post
                    This guy told me he spent most of his life working on a research project for the government trying to find out who is supplying all that dark energy.
                    He worked on it 30 years and they paid him an incredible amount of money... He told them he was pretty sure it was a guy named Eddie...
                    Eddie. Really?



                    Mystery solved.
                    I('d) tell you all, we are young at the end of this cycle, and there may be no rest even when we are done.- Devin Townsend

                    Comment

                    • GuyLawley
                      Champion of the Balance
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 1479

                      Not this guy, then?
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                      • In_Loos_Ptokai
                        Abrogate all rituals
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 803

                        Just came across this: Ask Ethan #73: The Multiverse and you
                        Is there another version of you somewhere out there in a parallel Universe?


                        Worth a read. (All you doppelgangers out there: worth a try! :)
                        sigpic Myself as Mephistopheles (Karen Koed's painting of me, 9 Nov 2008, U of Canterbury, CHCH, NZ)

                        Gold is the power of a man with a man
                        And incense the power of man with God
                        But myrrh is the bitter taste of death
                        And the sour-sweet smell of the upturned sod,

                        Nativity,
                        by Peter Cape

                        Comment

                        • Tales from Tanelorn
                          Eternal Champion
                          • Dec 2003
                          • 2110

                          Reality, is made from fast moving elementary particles, and no solid objects at all.

                          There are not that many different particles in the standard model. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model

                          All the laws of Physics, space, time and all, are ultimately derived from the characteristics of these particles.

                          Consider that a simple subroutine could define all the properties of each of this small number elementary particles and it is possible to imagine that a mathematical simulation of reality could be created.

                          A nice page on a theory of some things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_everything
                          Last edited by Tales from Tanelorn; 01-31-2015, 07:59 AM.

                          Comment

                          • zlogdan
                            Hex data reader and professional pawn
                            • Mar 2012
                            • 1931

                            It is a quite interesting idea Talenorn. It put me thinking about Artificial Intelligence, what if we reach some point where our hardware is fast enough and we have enough data base to represent a sentient being ? This would leads quite fast towards the real AI. Then suppose this AI will create other AIs and son on. I believe in the process they would inspect the nature of reality - by definition much faster than us- and one day your subroutine might be not just extrapolation.
                            "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                            "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                            Comment

                            • zlogdan
                              Hex data reader and professional pawn
                              • Mar 2012
                              • 1931

                              Hey Tales

                              I was thinking about grabbing

                              "The Origins of the Universe for Dummies" ( I love the dummies series by the way, they have always worked for me ). Do you think this is a good book on Cosmology ?
                              "From time to time I demonstrate the inconceivable, or mock the innocent, or give truth to liars, or shred the poses of virtue.(...) Now I am silent; this is my mood." From Sundrun's Garden, Jack Vance.
                              "As the Greeks have created the Olympus based upon their own image and resemblance, we have created Gotham City and Metropolis and all these galaxies so similar to the corporate world, manipulative, ruthless and well paid, that conceived them." Braulio Tavares.

                              Comment

                              • Tales from Tanelorn
                                Eternal Champion
                                • Dec 2003
                                • 2110

                                Z, my recommendation would be to use Wikipedia and these links:

                                http://www.mso.anu.edu.au/~charley/p...DavisSciAm.pdf
                                http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html


                                I have not tried any dummies books myself.
                                Last edited by Tales from Tanelorn; 02-04-2015, 07:39 AM.

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