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Michael Moorcock's Multiverse

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  • dasNdanger
    Duchess Headesplode
    • May 2009
    • 1667

    #16
    I think I'll just stick with Elric...




    das

    Comment

    • Reinart der Fuchs
      Mr. The Fox
      • May 2006
      • 4702

      #17
      Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post
      I think I'll just stick with Elric...
      das
      That won't be easy. Read the fine print.
      Infinite complexity according to simple rules.

      Comment

      • dasNdanger
        Duchess Headesplode
        • May 2009
        • 1667

        #18
        Originally posted by Reinart der Fuchs View Post
        Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post
        I think I'll just stick with Elric...
        das
        That won't be easy. Read the fine print.
        *pinches eyes shut and sticks fingers in ears*

        LALALALALALALALA! I'm NOT listening!!!!





        das

        Comment

        • Kesto
          A Hypothetical Lizard
          • Jun 2008
          • 480

          #19
          Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post
          Originally posted by Reinart der Fuchs View Post
          Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post
          I think I'll just stick with Elric...
          das
          That won't be easy. Read the fine print.
          *pinches eyes shut and sticks fingers in ears*

          LALALALALALALALA! I'm NOT listening!!!!
          She got you there, Reinart. You've been stymied.

          K.

          Comment

          • Reinart der Fuchs
            Mr. The Fox
            • May 2006
            • 4702

            #20
            Infinite complexity according to simple rules.

            Comment

            • Kevin McCabe
              Citizen of Tanelorn
              • Jun 2007
              • 6112

              #21
              I personally advised Das to read the first JC Quartet novel when she finished Stormbringer. She will pay dearly with the confusion (we all suffered) for failing to timely heed my advice! So there!
              Kevin McCabe
              The future is there, looking back at us. Trying to make sense of the fiction we will have become. William Gibson

              Comment

              • dasNdanger
                Duchess Headesplode
                • May 2009
                • 1667

                #22
                Originally posted by Kevin McCabe View Post
                I personally advised Das to read the first JC Quartet novel when she finished Stormbringer. She will pay dearly with the confusion (we all suffered) for failing to timely heed my advice! So there!

                Can't you just tell me the CliffsNotes version??

                I still haven't decided if I'm going to rush into JC - he's not the sort of character I'd easily warm to. I adore Elric so much, and still have so much yet to read. I'm through the main saga, but still have The Fortress of the Pearl, The Revenge of the Rose, The Dreamquest trilogy, Michael Moorcock's Multiverse...and some other odds and ends here and there. Reading The Metatemporal Detective right now - it's wonderful! Such a fun series of stories...but it's taking me a while because I'm also trying to catch up with my comics that I had neglected. Then...I wanted to get into Corum, then maybe Hawkmoon, because I like those kinds of characters...not sure how long all that will take.


                das

                Comment

                • David Mosley
                  Eternal Administrator
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 11823

                  #23
                  I think you can probably entertain reading The Final Programme straight after the Elric saga, since in many ways


                  However, due to the non-linear, anti-narrative nature of the JC Quartet as a whole I really wouldn't recommend reading the JC novels one after the other but rather intersperse them with (lots of) other material instead.
                  _"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
                  _For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
                  _And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
                  _He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

                  Comment

                  • nalpak retrac
                    Champion of the Balance
                    • Dec 2003
                    • 1073

                    #24
                    Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post
                    [

                    Psst...

                    Why did Mad Scientist post a pic of Robert Plant??

                    das
                    Common mistake. Actually, the image of "Cappy" is based on Col. Thomas-Juan Komokamuchi, Witch Doctor, Secret Agent:



                    The art is by Kai Robb, who did the cover for THC. Kai has done stunning work inspired by Mike and H.P. Lovecraft, among others. Here's his site:

                    http://tekelili.deviantart.com/gallery/

                    Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post

                    I still haven't decided if I'm going to rush into JC - he's not the sort of character I'd easily warm to.

                    das
                    He's not supposed to be.

                    Maybe.

                    But anyway, pursuing JC opens up new doors for a fuller understanding of Elric and his world.
                    Last edited by nalpak retrac; 07-01-2009, 03:45 PM.

                    Comment

                    • dasNdanger
                      Duchess Headesplode
                      • May 2009
                      • 1667

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Mad Scientist View Post
                      Common mistake. Actually, the image of "Cappy" is based on Col. Thomas-Juan Komokamuchi, Witch Doctor, Secret Agent:



                      The art is by Kai Robb, who did the cover for THC. Kai has done stunning work inspired by Mike and H.P. Lovecraft, among others. Here's his site:

                      http://tekelili.deviantart.com/gallery/
                      Ah, okay - thanks.

                      He's not supposed to be.

                      Maybe.

                      But anyway, pursuing JC opens up new doors for a fuller understanding of Elric and his world.

                      So I've been told. Well, maybe some day I'll get there. Right now I have a lot of Elric stories to get through...the Dreamquests - I hope I can get my head around them okay. I don't seem to be having any trouble with The Metatemporal Detective, so I guess I'll be okay. I'm finding the more I read, the easier it is to get my head around everything.

                      Still, I find myself liking Elric the best out of all the characters I've been introduced to (I don't think I've read anything with JC in it yet...)...and now I love Moorcock's Zenith, too. Of course, I don't know how much of Moorcock's Zenith is his own creation, and how much is like Skene's Zenith.


                      das

                      Comment

                      • dasNdanger
                        Duchess Headesplode
                        • May 2009
                        • 1667

                        #26
                        Whew! Just finished this...and man, is my head spinning!

                        Total chaos, right up to the end. I was a bit lost through half of it since I don't know Pearl, or Rose, or any of those characters. But the bits with Begg and Zenith/Zodiac, and Duke Elric, were very easy to follow. In the end all made sense, and I suppose now I can stop belly-aching about Elric being dead, because - obviously - in some universe he must still 'live'!

                        I...I hope...

                        das

                        Comment

                        • Pietro_Mercurios
                          Eternal Champion
                          • Oct 2004
                          • 5801

                          #27
                          The question that I didn't get a chance to ask Mike in London, recently, about Mike's concept of the Multiverse, was:

                          'How much is Mike's fictional Multiverse influenced by his experience of London as a multi-layered, multiply focused, City?'

                          Ever since I read of Tanelorn and of Gloriana's vast palace, in "Troynovante", I've got how much Mike has already written of his home town of London.

                          I lived in such a multiply focused London myself, for a few years and learned by hard personal experience, that it is not one village, town, or city, but many. A multi-layered fusion of several towns, ethnicities and relationships. A place where one can occasionally find oneself torn between parallel and often competing social relationships and experiences. I don't think that it would take a great deal of extrapolation for a thoughtful person to envision a a new model of reality based on such an apparently multi-focussed, constantly morphing, yet, at the core, coherent meta-reality.

                          Does London have a beating heart, built out of the blood, sweat and tears, of its inhabitants? Is it in some way, 'wicked', in the ancient and original sense of being in some way, knowing?

                          London is the only really big city that I've ever lived in. Other big cities, which have grown out of ancient and multiple roots are probably similar. I remember discussing this very idea, with Rothgo, about Edinburgh, over several pints of Wadworth's 6X, in the The Lord John Russell, on Marchmont Street (where Charles Fort and apparently, later, Kenneth Williams, had once had residence) and later, in the more anonymous, themed, O'Neil's on the Edgeware Road.

                          Where people come together, there are anecdotes, stories, songs, tales, myths, legends and histories. Memes and memories. I believe in a sentient Universe, because I believe myself to be sentient. I don't, for one minute, believe that I have privy to the only truth, or reality and can only suppose that there can be, one, two, many, possible truthful realities, sometimes necessarily paradoxical.

                          Comment

                          • dasNdanger
                            Duchess Headesplode
                            • May 2009
                            • 1667

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Pietro_Mercurios View Post
                            Ah, wonderful question!

                            I look forward to Mike's answer on this. I, too, think cities are made up of many - 'the old city', the underground ruins, the new construction...so much history, so many different faces inhabiting it all. Very good question.


                            das

                            Comment

                            • Michael Moorcock
                              Site Host
                              • Dec 2003
                              • 14278

                              #29
                              I think the simple answer to the question is 'everything'. For almost as long as I can remember I had wanted to write about London as a 'multiverse', blending reality and myth, hopes, dreams, memories. I made an awkward attempt at showing this in the London novel I wrote in the 50s which was set mostly in Soho and which I lost, I think when I went to Sweden. Growing up, for me London was also a malleable city, forever changing. You can get much of this in the piece I wrote for The Financial Times, published just before the BL event. I think one of the reasons I'm so unhappy living inthe country near a small (but very lively) provincial city is that I miss the sense of infinity I get from a city of considerable size, London in particular. London expands forever. There are no real limits to a city of that size. London is full of of narratives. It has as many stories as the multiverse. I think Paris works for me,, too. It's not just a question of physical size it's also of depth in time. New York can work like that for me, too. I'm sure if I'd lived in NY, I'd feel the same and be writing stories out of the city. Maybe New Orleans, too. All these cities have inspired me, but not as much as London. So, yes, London is the multiverse, packed with narratives, quasi-infinite, constantly inspiring.
                              To be honest, most of what I feel about London as a sentient creature is offered in Mother London, King of the City, London Bone, the Cornelius and the Pyat stories. Probably The Deep Fix is the first published story I wrote which expressed my feelings about London as a living thing. Also The Real Life Mr Newman, which was written around the same time, but messed up somewhat by the copy editor! I felt some of this about LA, too, as mentioned in Letters from Hollywood. Without wishing to knock Ackroyd in any way, I think Sinclair and I were expressing these ideas for a long time before Peter began writing about London in a similar way... We used to meet frequently (see references and dedications in the Blood books for instance) before I left for America and for some time afterwards and you'll find a certain amount of cross fertilisation around that time (about 10 years ago) but Peter, for reasons never explained, moved away from Iain and me, maybe because the two of us remained interested in the less respectable aspects of old and new London, I don't know. I'm not as interested in nostalgia as Peter or, indeed, Suggs (Madness's Norton Folgate) or even the Ray Davies choral versions of Kinks (mostly) London songs, which I think have as much to do with fashion as imagination. This isn't to knock either Madness or Ray Davies, whom I enjoy, but there's a distinct sense of xeroxing going on at the moment. I still prefer Ian Dury for popular London ditties.
                              Last edited by Michael Moorcock; 07-20-2009, 11:30 AM.

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                              • Pebble
                                Eternal Champion
                                • Dec 2006
                                • 2550

                                #30
                                That's a great reply, Mike.

                                I remember reading Robert Graves' White Goddess and finding the view how an object/symbol/word can hold a range of meanings to people who are look at it. Also the comment in one of the Second Corum trilogy books mentioning his understandng of a 'spirit of an object or place'.

                                Intrigued that you find the place where you live now, in what some people would describe as the wide empty spaces of Texas, restricting. Whereas the other view of the city is usually as tying people down and restraining their lives is the normal default position?

                                I find that where I live in Surrey, full of resonance with the way the landscape has been changed, the lost of estates, but then hidden by the return of the vegetation. I read The Battle of Dorking from your anthology, Before Armageddon and going to walk up Box Hill to look for the fort build to protect London from a possible invasion.

                                Have you read any of the Philip Reeve's Mortal Engine books, which takes the idea of sentient creatures?
                                Papa was a Rolling Stone......

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